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When on the ILS 25L approach at lax; the captain elected to cross the intermediate segment fixes approximately 800 ft above the charted crossing altitudes. The first officer advocated the need to cross at those altitudes; but the captain disagreed; believing them to be minimum altitudes.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 1028600 |
| Time | |
| Date | 201208 |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201-1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | LAX.Airport |
| State Reference | CA |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Make Model Name | Citation Excel (C560XL) |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
| Flight Phase | Descent |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Function | First Officer Pilot Not Flying |
| Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | Deviation - Altitude Crossing Restriction Not Met |
Narrative:
We were over luvyn at 10;000 ft and were cleared to descend via the ILS 25L procedure. The pilot flying programmed the VNAV and we started our descent. We were approaching taroc at 9;800 ft. The plate showed taroc at 9;000 ft; I told the pilot flying we need to be at 9;000 ft at taroc and he said we could be at or above 9;000 ft. We were crossing dymmo 800 ft above the charted 8;000 ft and I again mentioned that we should cross dymmo at 8;000 ft again the pilot flying said it was at or above 8;000 ft. We were crossing fueler 800 ft above the charted 7;000 ft and then we crossed gatte at the charted 5;000 ft. The rest of the approach was flown as indicated on the chart.we are trained and highly encouraged by our company to use the VNAV function. Some of the older aircraft FMS have very slow processors and sometimes have trouble meeting crossing restrictions. Many crewmembers have made this known to the company training department and the company continually strongly encourages the use of VNAV. I believe we should have manually flown the procedure to ensure we crossed the points at the charted altitudes.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: When on the ILS 25L approach at LAX; the Captain elected to cross the intermediate segment fixes approximately 800 FT above the charted crossing altitudes. The First Officer advocated the need to cross at those altitudes; but the Captain disagreed; believing them to be minimum altitudes.
Narrative: We were over LUVYN at 10;000 FT and were cleared to descend via the ILS 25L procedure. The pilot flying programmed the VNAV and we started our descent. We were approaching TAROC at 9;800 FT. The plate showed TAROC at 9;000 FT; I told the pilot flying we need to be at 9;000 FT at TAROC and he said we could be at or above 9;000 FT. We were crossing DYMMO 800 FT above the charted 8;000 FT and I again mentioned that we should cross DYMMO at 8;000 FT again the pilot flying said it was at or above 8;000 FT. We were crossing FUELER 800 FT above the charted 7;000 FT and then we crossed GATTE at the charted 5;000 FT. The rest of the approach was flown as indicated on the chart.We are trained and highly encouraged by our company to use the VNAV function. Some of the older aircraft FMS have very slow processors and sometimes have trouble meeting crossing restrictions. Many crewmembers have made this known to the company training department and the company continually strongly encourages the use of VNAV. I believe we should have manually flown the procedure to ensure we crossed the points at the charted altitudes.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2013 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.