37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1039407 |
Time | |
Date | 201209 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201-1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | MKE.TRACON |
State Reference | WI |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | PA-34-200 Seneca I |
Flight Phase | Cruise |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Flight Phase | Descent |
Route In Use | Vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | Approach |
Qualification | Air Traffic Control Fully Certified |
Events | |
Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types Conflict Airborne Conflict |
Narrative:
Atw has a final approach course for the ILS runway 3 that rests primarily in our airspace; instead of green bay's; so we routinely take point outs for aircraft that they are vectoring to the ILS 3 final approach course. Grb approach pointed out an aircraft that was descending out of 12;000 feet about 30 miles east of atw descending for the final approach to runway 3. We have a LOA with grb stating that these aircraft are only allowed to descend to 4;000 feet until they are clear of osh tower's airspace. I had a grb arrival who was about 20 miles south of atw at 5;000 feet when grb called for the point out. I started to say; 'traffic is' and the grb controller cuts in and said; 'PA-34?' (who is flashing already in hand off transfer to grb) I said 'yes' and the grb controller said; 'I'll miss him.' these 2 aircraft were almost 50 miles apart at the time of the point out. I observed grb descending and vectoring the point out aircraft closer to the final for the ILS 3. I then observed their aircraft descending to 5;000 feet and basically on a collision course with PA-34. I turned PA-34 to a 340 heading to start a turn away from the aircraft. I had no idea what that aircraft was doing so I didn't know exactly what to do. I called grb and asked them what they were doing with the point out aircraft as PA-34 was right there. I asked if they were descending him further and there was no answer on the land line. I hung up and climbed the PA-34 to 6;000 feet. I waited until I saw the point out aircraft at 4;000 feet then I descended PA-34 back down to 5;000 feet. I told our supervisor that I was pretty sure grb just had a loss of separation. Recommendation; grb should hand off these arrivals to us and we should be working them as they are in our airspace.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: MKE Controller described a probable loss of separation event involving GRB's vectors of a Runway 3 ILS arrival. The reporter suggested these aircraft should be worked by MKE because of the airspace configurations.
Narrative: ATW has a final approach course for the ILS Runway 3 that rests primarily in our airspace; instead of Green Bay's; so we routinely take point outs for aircraft that they are vectoring to the ILS 3 final approach course. GRB Approach pointed out an aircraft that was descending out of 12;000 feet about 30 miles East of ATW descending for the final approach to Runway 3. We have a LOA with GRB stating that these aircraft are only allowed to descend to 4;000 feet until they are clear of OSH Tower's airspace. I had a GRB arrival who was about 20 miles South of ATW at 5;000 feet when GRB called for the point out. I started to say; 'Traffic is' and the GRB Controller cuts in and said; 'PA-34?' (who is flashing already in hand off transfer to GRB) I said 'yes' and the GRB Controller said; 'I'll miss him.' These 2 aircraft were almost 50 miles apart at the time of the point out. I observed GRB descending and vectoring the point out aircraft closer to the final for the ILS 3. I then observed their aircraft descending to 5;000 feet and basically on a collision course with PA-34. I turned PA-34 to a 340 heading to start a turn away from the aircraft. I had no idea what that aircraft was doing so I didn't know exactly what to do. I called GRB and asked them what they were doing with the point out aircraft as PA-34 was right there. I asked if they were descending him further and there was no answer on the land line. I hung up and climbed the PA-34 to 6;000 feet. I waited until I saw the point out aircraft at 4;000 feet then I descended PA-34 back down to 5;000 feet. I told our Supervisor that I was pretty sure GRB just had a loss of separation. Recommendation; GRB should hand off these arrivals to us and we should be working them as they are in our airspace.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2013 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.