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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1050236 |
Time | |
Date | 201211 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201-1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | LGA.Airport |
State Reference | NY |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport Low Wing 2 Turbojet Eng |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Final Approach Landing |
Route In Use | Visual Approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | Captain Pilot Flying |
Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 150 Flight Crew Type 8000 |
Events | |
Anomaly | Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy |
Narrative:
This report is being written to bring to your attention a particular procedure that I would like to point out as not being as safe or efficient as it could be. There is no particular incident to report but rather my observations regarding the expressway visual arrival to lga. I was the PF on a flight to lga and approximately halfway to lga; the pm and I began to discuss the arrival. I commented that I sure hope we don't have to do that expressway arrival to 31 and he agreed. We spoke to each other about the shortcomings to that arrival and how it is very difficult to see the runway; ATC doesn't usually turn you until you see it; oftentimes they seem to get concerned about your ground track before base; yet you have no visual on the runway to ascertain your path and visual glideslope. We briefed and talked about the approach way before our arrival and still found it very challenging. The two of us have each been at this company for over 10 years and have done this arrival before. When we started service to lga; I used to build two way points as a backup reference for both ground track and our vertical track in relation to the runway. At some point; I read something published that said we weren't supposed to do that. Basically; you fly downwind at 2500' flaps 15 gear down looking for the runway. The runway is very hard to see from this position and I have heard ATC tell other aircraft that they needed to pick it up visually because there were tall buildings ahead. During this phase; the first officer can't see the runway at all or assist in searching for it. Since you are not cut loose by ATC and the ground track varies; it is very difficult to know the actual track to the runway and what kind of altitude and sink rate is needed. This can make it very difficult to get on any kind of profile for a stabilized approach. I feel like I am shooting at a target in a dark room often on this visual; it is doable; perhaps even simple if you fly in there very frequently. It is my opinion; that for the frequency of a typical pilot; this visual procedure is not a recipe for; safe; consistent; stabilized visual approaches. I do not know what is involved and it may be a gargantuan task; but; if this procedure had a couple of way points with altitudes; to cross check your altitude and position; much like the 19 visual procedure at [dca]; it would be much easier and more efficient for both ATC and the [pilots]. Perhaps this approach is not a significant issue. I imagine that foqa data could indicate if there are numerous go-arounds or unstabilized approaches resulting from this visual procedure or not. It is my humble opinion that the safety and efficiency to runway 31 at lga could be greatly improved for all concerned parties with some alterations for improved guidance. At present; detailed briefing is absolutely necessary and any means to track situational awareness regarding the runway position. As previously mentioned; some way points would be a great aid.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: Airline Captain believes that the Expressway visual Approach to Runway 31 at LGA should have some fixes with suggested altitudes (like the River Visual to 19 at DCA) to aid pilots that do not fly into LGA on a regular basis.
Narrative: This report is being written to bring to your attention a particular procedure that I would like to point out as not being as safe or efficient as it could be. There is no particular incident to report but rather my observations regarding the expressway visual arrival to LGA. I was the PF on a flight to LGA and approximately halfway to LGA; the PM and I began to discuss the arrival. I commented that I sure hope we don't have to do that EXPRESSWAY Arrival to 31 and he agreed. We spoke to each other about the shortcomings to that arrival and how it is very difficult to see the runway; ATC doesn't usually turn you until you see it; oftentimes they seem to get concerned about your ground track before base; yet you have no visual on the runway to ascertain your path and visual glideslope. We briefed and talked about the approach way before our arrival and still found it very challenging. The two of us have each been at this company for over 10 years and have done this arrival before. When we started service to LGA; I used to build two way points as a backup reference for both ground track and our vertical track in relation to the runway. At some point; I read something published that said we weren't supposed to do that. Basically; you fly downwind at 2500' flaps 15 gear down looking for the runway. The runway is very hard to see from this position and I have heard ATC tell other aircraft that they needed to pick it up visually because there were tall buildings ahead. During this phase; the First Officer can't see the runway at all or assist in searching for it. Since you are not cut loose by ATC and the ground track varies; it is very difficult to know the actual track to the runway and what kind of altitude and sink rate is needed. This can make it very difficult to get on any kind of profile for a stabilized approach. I feel like I am shooting at a target in a dark room often on this visual; it is doable; perhaps even simple if you fly in there very frequently. It is my opinion; that for the frequency of a typical Pilot; this visual procedure is not a recipe for; safe; consistent; stabilized visual approaches. I do not know what is involved and it may be a gargantuan task; but; if this procedure had a couple of way points with altitudes; to cross check your altitude and position; much like the 19 visual procedure at [DCA]; it would be much easier and more efficient for both ATC and the [pilots]. Perhaps this approach is not a significant issue. I imagine that FOQA data could indicate if there are numerous go-arounds or unstabilized approaches resulting from this visual procedure or not. It is my humble opinion that the safety and efficiency to Runway 31 at LGA could be greatly improved for all concerned parties with some alterations for improved guidance. At present; detailed briefing is absolutely necessary and any means to track situational awareness regarding the runway position. As previously mentioned; some way points would be a great aid.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2013 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.