37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 108851 |
Time | |
Date | 198904 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 0001 To 0600 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : teb |
State Reference | NJ |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2500 msl bound upper : 4500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90 |
Operator | common carrier : air taxi |
Make Model Name | Small Transport |
Flight Phase | cruise other descent other |
Flight Plan | None |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air taxi |
Function | oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 3000 flight time type : 45 |
ASRS Report | 108851 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | government : faa |
Function | controller : approach |
Qualification | controller : radar |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance other anomaly other other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
On VFR flight from lewiston, me to teterboro, nj everything was going as planned until over carmel VOR. We contacted ny approach and stated we were VFR to teb and requested flight following and a VFR clearance thru the TCA. He gave us a squawk and told me to proceed as requested and something else we didn't make sense out of. I remembered from the previous night (1ST night on new route with another pilot though) they cleared us the same way but requested we stay below the floor of the TCA. The other pilot explained to me that by this certain bridge they want you to be below the floor. This didn't make much sense to me because we would be in the TCA then as we got closer we would drop below the floor. I again called ny and stated I was descending to 2500'. (This would keep me below the floor.) he said 'you don't have to descend yet'. I came back with 'verify I'm cleared thru the TCA at 4500''. He said 'after cleared as requested.' later I called teb in sight he said 'squawk 1200 remain clear of the TCA'. So I immediately descended below the floor and landed. I'm pretty sure this kept me below the floor the whole time. This whole event has me bewildered. First of all if I'm cleared thru the TCA why would I have to remain clear once I have teb in sight. Even if common practice at ny is to have aircraft stay clear of floor once so close to teb it should be stated so. I think there is a misuse of proper phraseology by the controllers, which caused this confusion, at least in my circumstance. From now on I won't enter the TCA until I get the exact words 'you are cleared through the TCA'. I won't accept proceed as requested.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: SMT MIGHT HAVE PENETRATED TCA DUE TO EITHER CONFUSING INSTRUCTIONS OR MISUNDERSTANDING BY PLT.
Narrative: ON VFR FLT FROM LEWISTON, ME TO TETERBORO, NJ EVERYTHING WAS GOING AS PLANNED UNTIL OVER CARMEL VOR. WE CONTACTED NY APCH AND STATED WE WERE VFR TO TEB AND REQUESTED FLT FOLLOWING AND A VFR CLRNC THRU THE TCA. HE GAVE US A SQUAWK AND TOLD ME TO PROCEED AS REQUESTED AND SOMETHING ELSE WE DIDN'T MAKE SENSE OUT OF. I REMEMBERED FROM THE PREVIOUS NIGHT (1ST NIGHT ON NEW ROUTE WITH ANOTHER PLT THOUGH) THEY CLRED US THE SAME WAY BUT REQUESTED WE STAY BELOW THE FLOOR OF THE TCA. THE OTHER PLT EXPLAINED TO ME THAT BY THIS CERTAIN BRIDGE THEY WANT YOU TO BE BELOW THE FLOOR. THIS DIDN'T MAKE MUCH SENSE TO ME BECAUSE WE WOULD BE IN THE TCA THEN AS WE GOT CLOSER WE WOULD DROP BELOW THE FLOOR. I AGAIN CALLED NY AND STATED I WAS DSNDING TO 2500'. (THIS WOULD KEEP ME BELOW THE FLOOR.) HE SAID 'YOU DON'T HAVE TO DSND YET'. I CAME BACK WITH 'VERIFY I'M CLRED THRU THE TCA AT 4500''. HE SAID 'AFTER CLRED AS REQUESTED.' LATER I CALLED TEB IN SIGHT HE SAID 'SQUAWK 1200 REMAIN CLEAR OF THE TCA'. SO I IMMEDIATELY DESCENDED BELOW THE FLOOR AND LANDED. I'M PRETTY SURE THIS KEPT ME BELOW THE FLOOR THE WHOLE TIME. THIS WHOLE EVENT HAS ME BEWILDERED. FIRST OF ALL IF I'M CLRED THRU THE TCA WHY WOULD I HAVE TO REMAIN CLEAR ONCE I HAVE TEB IN SIGHT. EVEN IF COMMON PRACTICE AT NY IS TO HAVE ACFT STAY CLEAR OF FLOOR ONCE SO CLOSE TO TEB IT SHOULD BE STATED SO. I THINK THERE IS A MISUSE OF PROPER PHRASEOLOGY BY THE CTLRS, WHICH CAUSED THIS CONFUSION, AT LEAST IN MY CIRCUMSTANCE. FROM NOW ON I WON'T ENTER THE TCA UNTIL I GET THE EXACT WORDS 'YOU ARE CLRED THROUGH THE TCA'. I WON'T ACCEPT PROCEED AS REQUESTED.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.