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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 110250 |
Time | |
Date | 198904 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : omn |
State Reference | FL |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 19500 msl bound upper : 20000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Marginal |
Light | Dusk |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zjx |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 125 flight time total : 8500 flight time type : 1300 |
ASRS Report | 110250 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | government : faa |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude conflict : airborne less severe inflight encounter : weather non adherence : clearance |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Cleared to descend to cross lamma intersection at 12000' and 250 KTS. Approximately over omn VOR a line of trw's oriented east to west with tops to approximately 20000'. Requested deviation to west which was denied (told to deviate east, but that was not acceptable based on our radar). Another aircraft in front of us on the arrival requested and was granted a deviation to the west (approximately heading 200 degrees). By this time I was descending through approximately FL195 and within 5 or so mi of the line of storms. I told the controller I also needed a 220 degree heading and would need to climb back to FL200 to top the WX. The controller approved the deviation and I stopped descent and climbed back to FL200. In a couple of minutes the controller asked my altitude and I replied FL200, at which time he stated I shouldn't have stopped my descent and that I was within 1/2 mi of another aircraft. He commanded an immediate left 180 degree turn which I complied with and continued my descent. In my opinion the problem arose because either I failed to make my intentions clear to controller and then assumed his approval of my heading request also was approval of my altitude request, or I failed to request the altitude as I thought I had. I feel the controller failed to response to my need to avoid WX which I could see visually and was painting on radar but which he was not aware of. Question: why was my request to deviated to west denied and then within mins both I and another aircraft in front of me were granted deviations? By the time deviation was approved staying above WX was the only way to avoid it when a deviation granted earlier would have solved problem. Controller and pilot workload in this time frame could have been factor because decisions had to be made by both parties quickly.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CONFUSION BETWEEN ATC AND FLT CREW REGARDING REQUEST TO CIRCUMNAVIGATE TSTMS. CREW DENIED WEST TURN, GIVEN EAST TURN WHICH WAS UNACCEPTABLE ACCORDING TO WX RADAR. SECOND ACFT GRANTED WEST TURN SO REPORTER AGAIN REQUESTED HEADING CHANGE AND TO REMAIN AT FL200. REQUEST GRANTED. LATER ALT QUESTIONED AND REPORTER TOLD HE SHOULD NOT HAVE STOPPED DESCENT, AND TO DESCEND.
Narrative: CLRED TO DSND TO CROSS LAMMA INTXN AT 12000' AND 250 KTS. APPROX OVER OMN VOR A LINE OF TRW'S ORIENTED E TO W WITH TOPS TO APPROX 20000'. REQUESTED DEVIATION TO W WHICH WAS DENIED (TOLD TO DEVIATE E, BUT THAT WAS NOT ACCEPTABLE BASED ON OUR RADAR). ANOTHER ACFT IN FRONT OF US ON THE ARR REQUESTED AND WAS GRANTED A DEVIATION TO THE W (APPROX HDG 200 DEGS). BY THIS TIME I WAS DSNDING THROUGH APPROX FL195 AND WITHIN 5 OR SO MI OF THE LINE OF STORMS. I TOLD THE CTLR I ALSO NEEDED A 220 DEG HDG AND WOULD NEED TO CLB BACK TO FL200 TO TOP THE WX. THE CTLR APPROVED THE DEVIATION AND I STOPPED DSCNT AND CLBED BACK TO FL200. IN A COUPLE OF MINUTES THE CTLR ASKED MY ALT AND I REPLIED FL200, AT WHICH TIME HE STATED I SHOULDN'T HAVE STOPPED MY DSCNT AND THAT I WAS WITHIN 1/2 MI OF ANOTHER ACFT. HE COMMANDED AN IMMEDIATE LEFT 180 DEG TURN WHICH I COMPLIED WITH AND CONTINUED MY DSCNT. IN MY OPINION THE PROB AROSE BECAUSE EITHER I FAILED TO MAKE MY INTENTIONS CLEAR TO CTLR AND THEN ASSUMED HIS APPROVAL OF MY HDG REQUEST ALSO WAS APPROVAL OF MY ALT REQUEST, OR I FAILED TO REQUEST THE ALT AS I THOUGHT I HAD. I FEEL THE CTLR FAILED TO RESPONSE TO MY NEED TO AVOID WX WHICH I COULD SEE VISUALLY AND WAS PAINTING ON RADAR BUT WHICH HE WAS NOT AWARE OF. QUESTION: WHY WAS MY REQUEST TO DEVIATED TO W DENIED AND THEN WITHIN MINS BOTH I AND ANOTHER ACFT IN FRONT OF ME WERE GRANTED DEVIATIONS? BY THE TIME DEVIATION WAS APPROVED STAYING ABOVE WX WAS THE ONLY WAY TO AVOID IT WHEN A DEVIATION GRANTED EARLIER WOULD HAVE SOLVED PROB. CTLR AND PLT WORKLOAD IN THIS TIME FRAME COULD HAVE BEEN FACTOR BECAUSE DECISIONS HAD TO BE MADE BY BOTH PARTIES QUICKLY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.