37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1113453 |
Time | |
Date | 201309 |
Local Time Of Day | 0601-1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | ISN.Airport |
State Reference | ND |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | Embraer Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Takeoff |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | Captain Pilot Flying |
Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
Person 2 | |
Function | Pilot Not Flying First Officer |
Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
Events | |
Anomaly | Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy Deviation - Procedural Weight And Balance |
Narrative:
Preflight in isn manual weight and balance we entered all information and called dispatch. Based on current field conditions we were given numbers for a flaps 9 takeoff runway 29 or a flaps 18 takeoff runway 11. We choose runway 29 because the winds slightly favored that runway and flaps 9 is the more standard procedure. Taking the runway I decided to run the engines up with the brakes held because of the relatively short runway length. During the takeoff roll it seemed we were using a lot of runway and in my best estimate as flying pilot we got airborne with 1;000 ft of runway remaining. This seemed abnormal to both me and the first officer. After the flight we counted the passengers and found that 44 of the 49 passengers were men and in my estimation we had 45 passengers over 200 pounds several of them closer to 300 than 200. In summary I believe we were significantly heavier than we thought we were due to underestimation of passengers' weight. I feel this may be an everyday occurrence in isn. I have no way of verifying my hunch that we had an unsafe extended takeoff roll as I couldn't find an accelerate stop chart in our manuals. Not knowing how much passengers weighed; not knowing if flaps 18 was available for runway 29 as we have no more charts. [We are] relying on dispatch to run numbers with no ability to manually verify; generally not as much information available to us as before introduction of new weight and balance procedures. [It is] not as easy to make an informed decision on safest runway choice [and] flap 9/18 choice in this case. Based on the higher mgtw for runway 11; I should have taken runway 11 with the 5 KT tailwinds; used a more conservative passenger weight estimate in isn or weigh each passenger manually. List available flap configurations for to each runway in a bulletin or give me at least one general takeoff distance chart to keep in my manual.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A flight crew lifted off ISN Runway 29 with less than 1;000 FT remaining and discovered after the fact that passenger and baggage weight was heavier than calculated and other flap/runway options should have been considered.
Narrative: Preflight in ISN manual weight and balance we entered all information and called Dispatch. Based on current field conditions we were given numbers for a flaps 9 takeoff Runway 29 or a flaps 18 takeoff Runway 11. We choose Runway 29 because the winds slightly favored that runway and flaps 9 is the more standard procedure. Taking the runway I decided to run the engines up with the brakes held because of the relatively short runway length. During the takeoff roll it seemed we were using a lot of runway and in my best estimate as flying pilot we got airborne with 1;000 FT of runway remaining. This seemed abnormal to both me and the First Officer. After the flight we counted the passengers and found that 44 of the 49 passengers were men and in my estimation we had 45 passengers over 200 LBS several of them closer to 300 than 200. In summary I believe we were significantly heavier than we thought we were due to underestimation of passengers' weight. I feel this may be an everyday occurrence in ISN. I have no way of verifying my hunch that we had an unsafe extended takeoff roll as I couldn't find an accelerate stop chart in our manuals. Not knowing how much passengers weighed; not knowing if flaps 18 was available for Runway 29 as we have no more charts. [We are] relying on Dispatch to run numbers with no ability to manually verify; generally not as much information available to us as before introduction of new weight and balance procedures. [It is] not as easy to make an informed decision on safest runway choice [and] flap 9/18 choice in this case. Based on the higher MGTW for Runway 11; I should have taken Runway 11 with the 5 KT tailwinds; used a more conservative passenger weight estimate in ISN or weigh each passenger manually. List available flap configurations for to each runway in a bulletin or give me at least one general takeoff distance chart to keep in my manual.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2013 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.