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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 115409 |
Time | |
Date | 198906 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : lax |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 126 msl bound upper : 6000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach landing other |
Route In Use | arrival : profile descent |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | descent : approach landing other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 900 |
ASRS Report | 115409 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa other other : unspecified |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
Narrative:
I was approaching lax from the north on the runway 24/25 profile descent. Was given a 080 degree heading from smo and descent to 6000'. I was slowing my speed to 200 and starting to configure with flaps expecting the usual slam-dunk approach. Then given clearance to 160 degree, 4000', 170 KTS. In the process of doing that, a competitors widebody transport was called as traffic at 11 O'clock and 2 mi. Copilot acknowledged him in sight and we were immediately cleared to 'follow him to the airport, he's for 25L, you're for 25R, cleared visual approach 25R.' we were almost on top of him and way too high for a normal approach. I configured immediately with gear and full flaps and increased my descent to attain a normal glide path by 1000'. In doing so my speed had to increase and thus we went slightly ahead of our traffic and landed just before him. At no time was he out of my sight or was separation compromised he was livid that he was passed and wanted the tower to file a violation against me for violating my clearance to 'follow' him. I think I was hung out to dry by the approach controller by placing me on a too-high base and then clearing me for a visual approach. For my part, I should have refused the visual clearance and made him (the controller) place me in position for a normal glide path to landing. You can bet that's exactly what I'll do next time this happens.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: PROFILE DESCENT APCH, KEPT HIGH, ASSIGNED VISUAL. DUE RAPID DESCENT NEEDED EXCEEDED SPEED AND PASSED ACFT ON PARALLEL APCH.
Narrative: I WAS APCHING LAX FROM THE N ON THE RWY 24/25 PROFILE DSCNT. WAS GIVEN A 080 DEG HDG FROM SMO AND DSCNT TO 6000'. I WAS SLOWING MY SPEED TO 200 AND STARTING TO CONFIGURE WITH FLAPS EXPECTING THE USUAL SLAM-DUNK APCH. THEN GIVEN CLRNC TO 160 DEG, 4000', 170 KTS. IN THE PROCESS OF DOING THAT, A COMPETITORS WDB WAS CALLED AS TFC AT 11 O'CLOCK AND 2 MI. COPLT ACKNOWLEDGED HIM IN SIGHT AND WE WERE IMMEDIATELY CLRED TO 'FOLLOW HIM TO THE ARPT, HE'S FOR 25L, YOU'RE FOR 25R, CLRED VISUAL APCH 25R.' WE WERE ALMOST ON TOP OF HIM AND WAY TOO HIGH FOR A NORMAL APCH. I CONFIGURED IMMEDIATELY WITH GEAR AND FULL FLAPS AND INCREASED MY DSCNT TO ATTAIN A NORMAL GLIDE PATH BY 1000'. IN DOING SO MY SPEED HAD TO INCREASE AND THUS WE WENT SLIGHTLY AHEAD OF OUR TFC AND LANDED JUST BEFORE HIM. AT NO TIME WAS HE OUT OF MY SIGHT OR WAS SEPARATION COMPROMISED HE WAS LIVID THAT HE WAS PASSED AND WANTED THE TWR TO FILE A VIOLATION AGAINST ME FOR VIOLATING MY CLRNC TO 'FOLLOW' HIM. I THINK I WAS HUNG OUT TO DRY BY THE APCH CTLR BY PLACING ME ON A TOO-HIGH BASE AND THEN CLEARING ME FOR A VISUAL APCH. FOR MY PART, I SHOULD HAVE REFUSED THE VISUAL CLRNC AND MADE HIM (THE CTLR) PLACE ME IN POSITION FOR A NORMAL GLIDE PATH TO LNDG. YOU CAN BET THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'LL DO NEXT TIME THIS HAPPENS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.