37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 117808 |
Time | |
Date | 198907 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 4000 msl bound upper : 4000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | cruise other descent : approach |
Route In Use | arrival other enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : second officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : flight engineer |
ASRS Report | 117808 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 18000 vertical : 0 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
At approximately xa on 7/sun/89 we were descending to 4000' as instructed by the lax approach controller and could expect a turn onto the runway 25L localizer, or rather a turn to base leg for the runway 25L localizer behind a heavy widebody transport approaching at our approximately 1 O'clock position. The visibility to the east and south was 20 mi or so, and the only reason for our needing a turn onto the localizer to shoot the ILS was due to the approximately 2000' broken layer of clouds directly over the airport and extending east to approximately the middle marker. This prevented our getting a visibility on the airport. The first officer reported the 1 O'clock traffic in sight at which time the approach controller cleared us to turn base leg behind the widebody transport to pick up the localizer. He was turning us on at about the OM. The captain was flying this leg and turned base behind what he thought was the widebody transport. The approach controller asked for our heading, immediately told us to turn right to an 070 degree heading and maintain 4000'. Well, we turned to 070 degrees and found ourselves approximately 3 mi or so from the advancing widebody transport at our 12 O'clock position, same altitude. Captain banked right to avoid traffic. We were given a new controller who vectored us around the traffic and sent us out on a long downwind and brought us on in for the 25L ILS. I believe the situation could have been prevented had the controller not been in such an accommodating mood so as to rush things a bit by sandwiching us in behind the widebody transport for the ILS just outside the marker. Also the first officer incorrectly idented the widebody transport.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: REPORTER FLT CREW REPORTED TRAFFIC TO FOLLOW AND WERE CLEARED FOR APCH BY ATC. FLT CREW HAD SIGHTED AND BEGAN TO FOLLOW WRONG TRAFFIC. ATC INTERVENED.
Narrative: AT APPROX XA ON 7/SUN/89 WE WERE DSNDING TO 4000' AS INSTRUCTED BY THE LAX APCH CTLR AND COULD EXPECT A TURN ONTO THE RWY 25L LOC, OR RATHER A TURN TO BASE LEG FOR THE RWY 25L LOC BEHIND A HVY WDB APCHING AT OUR APPROX 1 O'CLOCK POS. THE VISIBILITY TO THE E AND S WAS 20 MI OR SO, AND THE ONLY REASON FOR OUR NEEDING A TURN ONTO THE LOC TO SHOOT THE ILS WAS DUE TO THE APPROX 2000' BROKEN LAYER OF CLOUDS DIRECTLY OVER THE ARPT AND EXTENDING E TO APPROX THE MIDDLE MARKER. THIS PREVENTED OUR GETTING A VIS ON THE ARPT. THE F/O RPTED THE 1 O'CLOCK TFC IN SIGHT AT WHICH TIME THE APCH CTLR CLRED US TO TURN BASE LEG BEHIND THE WDB TO PICK UP THE LOC. HE WAS TURNING US ON AT ABOUT THE OM. THE CAPT WAS FLYING THIS LEG AND TURNED BASE BEHIND WHAT HE THOUGHT WAS THE WDB. THE APCH CTLR ASKED FOR OUR HDG, IMMEDIATELY TOLD US TO TURN RIGHT TO AN 070 DEG HDG AND MAINTAIN 4000'. WELL, WE TURNED TO 070 DEGS AND FOUND OURSELVES APPROX 3 MI OR SO FROM THE ADVANCING WDB AT OUR 12 O'CLOCK POS, SAME ALT. CAPT BANKED RIGHT TO AVOID TFC. WE WERE GIVEN A NEW CTLR WHO VECTORED US AROUND THE TFC AND SENT US OUT ON A LONG DOWNWIND AND BROUGHT US ON IN FOR THE 25L ILS. I BELIEVE THE SITUATION COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED HAD THE CTLR NOT BEEN IN SUCH AN ACCOMMODATING MOOD SO AS TO RUSH THINGS A BIT BY SANDWICHING US IN BEHIND THE WDB FOR THE ILS JUST OUTSIDE THE MARKER. ALSO THE F/O INCORRECTLY IDENTED THE WDB.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.