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37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
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Altitude deviation overshot on descent. Reporter claims too much traffic and too much effort looking for same is disconcerting. Has suggestion for reroute to bur.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 117825 |
| Time | |
| Date | 198907 |
| Day | Mon |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : bur |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 5650 msl bound upper : 6000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : bur |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | descent other |
| Route In Use | arrival other enroute : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 225 flight time total : 16000 flight time type : 540 |
| ASRS Report | 117825 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 16000 flight time type : 500 |
| ASRS Report | 117683 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
Narrative:
We were cleared to descend to 6000 ft by approach control and were involved in looking for traffic in an area that is thick with VFR traffic in reduced visibility. (The eastbound arrival to bur from over palm springs is bad--too much exposure at low altitude). We were looking for traffic at our 2 and 1 O'clock positions. Apparently in the process of all this I had touched the altitude setting knob again and it went to 5000 ft. So, we descended below 6000 ft to the warning horn as we were involved in looking for the traffic. By the time we started to climb back to 6000 ft we had descended to about 5650 ft. I have done this arrival to bur several times over the yrs and it is always a problem. From paradise VOR to landing the cleared and filed route is never adhered to because you have to constantly be vectored and descended to avoid traffic and many times you end up high over the airport which causes even more exposure to low altitude traffic. Usually you are so busy looking for light aircraft traffic that your attention is diverted from flying the airplane and this is not the first or last time this will happen. A possible fix for the problem would be to transition from pauker VOR to daggett and do the lynxx 4 arrival to bur from the north and avoid lax arrs. Supplemental information from acn 117683: I didn't see the captain initially set the altitude in the autoplt, however I did verbally advise him of the clearance to 6000 ft and he was monitoring the ATC frequency so I feel he did not set in 5000 ft. This system can be knocked off altitude if when initially set it is not set completely in the detent for the altitude selected. Then just a slight bump while setting another function or just the vibration from the aircraft can cause it to change to another altitude setting.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ALT DEVIATION OVERSHOT ON DESCENT. REPORTER CLAIMS TOO MUCH TRAFFIC AND TOO MUCH EFFORT LOOKING FOR SAME IS DISCONCERTING. HAS SUGGESTION FOR REROUTE TO BUR.
Narrative: WE WERE CLRED TO DSND TO 6000 FT BY APCH CTL AND WERE INVOLVED IN LOOKING FOR TFC IN AN AREA THAT IS THICK WITH VFR TFC IN REDUCED VISIBILITY. (THE EBND ARR TO BUR FROM OVER PALM SPRINGS IS BAD--TOO MUCH EXPOSURE AT LOW ALT). WE WERE LOOKING FOR TFC AT OUR 2 AND 1 O'CLOCK POSITIONS. APPARENTLY IN THE PROCESS OF ALL THIS I HAD TOUCHED THE ALT SETTING KNOB AGAIN AND IT WENT TO 5000 FT. SO, WE DSNDED BELOW 6000 FT TO THE WARNING HORN AS WE WERE INVOLVED IN LOOKING FOR THE TFC. BY THE TIME WE STARTED TO CLB BACK TO 6000 FT WE HAD DSNDED TO ABOUT 5650 FT. I HAVE DONE THIS ARR TO BUR SEVERAL TIMES OVER THE YRS AND IT IS ALWAYS A PROB. FROM PARADISE VOR TO LNDG THE CLRED AND FILED ROUTE IS NEVER ADHERED TO BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO CONSTANTLY BE VECTORED AND DSNDED TO AVOID TFC AND MANY TIMES YOU END UP HIGH OVER THE ARPT WHICH CAUSES EVEN MORE EXPOSURE TO LOW ALT TFC. USUALLY YOU ARE SO BUSY LOOKING FOR LIGHT ACFT TFC THAT YOUR ATTN IS DIVERTED FROM FLYING THE AIRPLANE AND THIS IS NOT THE FIRST OR LAST TIME THIS WILL HAPPEN. A POSSIBLE FIX FOR THE PROB WOULD BE TO TRANSITION FROM PAUKER VOR TO DAGGETT AND DO THE LYNXX 4 ARR TO BUR FROM THE N AND AVOID LAX ARRS. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 117683: I DIDN'T SEE THE CAPT INITIALLY SET THE ALT IN THE AUTOPLT, HOWEVER I DID VERBALLY ADVISE HIM OF THE CLRNC TO 6000 FT AND HE WAS MONITORING THE ATC FREQ SO I FEEL HE DID NOT SET IN 5000 FT. THIS SYS CAN BE KNOCKED OFF ALT IF WHEN INITIALLY SET IT IS NOT SET COMPLETELY IN THE DETENT FOR THE ALT SELECTED. THEN JUST A SLIGHT BUMP WHILE SETTING ANOTHER FUNCTION OR JUST THE VIBRATION FROM THE ACFT CAN CAUSE IT TO CHANGE TO ANOTHER ALT SETTING.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.