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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 118361 |
Time | |
Date | 198907 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : msp |
State Reference | MN |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2000 msl bound upper : 2000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : msp tower : msp |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other |
Route In Use | approach : visual |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 220 flight time total : 7000 flight time type : 220 |
ASRS Report | 118361 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Situations | |
Navigational Aid | Unspecified |
Narrative:
We were shooting an approach into msp. WX was scattered clouds down to about 3000'. We were given a clearance for ILS 11R. The controller had us in tight, and had us reduce to our final approach speed about 15-20 mi out. We were told we were 3.5 mi in trail of a company large transport and were to follow him. Wayza IAF at 4000', cleared for the approach. I was at 4000' at wayza and then started to gradually descend to 2800' to cross kinns. At about 3200' we broke out and I could see we were real tight on the large transport. I also had the G/south and we were well above it. At this pint I was concentrating getting on G/south and keeping at least 3 mi with the large transport. At kinns I x-referenced DME and altitude and saw that we were 400-500' below the published approach. I abandoned the G/south and flew a visibility approach. Upon landing I asked if tower had any reports of a false G/south to 11R. To my surprise he said it was OTS. The captain in front of us said it was not on the ATIS and the captain told me he had not heard it. I dialed up ATIS and there it was. I called and talked to tower/approach folks and they said there was no problem, and that most folks were electing for a visibility approach. The captain should have passed on to me that the G/south was out--and perhaps the controller could have said cleared ILS 11R, G/south out. Even though it was on the ATIS, it could have helped.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FO FLYING MLG ON APCH TO MSP UNABLE TO FOLLOW GLIDE SLOPE OF ILS, WENT TO VISUAL APCH. GLIDE SLOPE WAS ON ATIS OUT OF SERVICE.
Narrative: WE WERE SHOOTING AN APCH INTO MSP. WX WAS SCATTERED CLOUDS DOWN TO ABOUT 3000'. WE WERE GIVEN A CLRNC FOR ILS 11R. THE CTLR HAD US IN TIGHT, AND HAD US REDUCE TO OUR FINAL APCH SPD ABOUT 15-20 MI OUT. WE WERE TOLD WE WERE 3.5 MI IN TRAIL OF A COMPANY LGT AND WERE TO FOLLOW HIM. WAYZA IAF AT 4000', CLRED FOR THE APCH. I WAS AT 4000' AT WAYZA AND THEN STARTED TO GRADUALLY DSND TO 2800' TO CROSS KINNS. AT ABOUT 3200' WE BROKE OUT AND I COULD SEE WE WERE REAL TIGHT ON THE LGT. I ALSO HAD THE G/S AND WE WERE WELL ABOVE IT. AT THIS PINT I WAS CONCENTRATING GETTING ON G/S AND KEEPING AT LEAST 3 MI WITH THE LGT. AT KINNS I X-REFERENCED DME AND ALT AND SAW THAT WE WERE 400-500' BELOW THE PUBLISHED APCH. I ABANDONED THE G/S AND FLEW A VIS APCH. UPON LNDG I ASKED IF TWR HAD ANY RPTS OF A FALSE G/S TO 11R. TO MY SURPRISE HE SAID IT WAS OTS. THE CAPT IN FRONT OF US SAID IT WAS NOT ON THE ATIS AND THE CAPT TOLD ME HE HAD NOT HEARD IT. I DIALED UP ATIS AND THERE IT WAS. I CALLED AND TALKED TO TWR/APCH FOLKS AND THEY SAID THERE WAS NO PROB, AND THAT MOST FOLKS WERE ELECTING FOR A VIS APCH. THE CAPT SHOULD HAVE PASSED ON TO ME THAT THE G/S WAS OUT--AND PERHAPS THE CTLR COULD HAVE SAID CLRED ILS 11R, G/S OUT. EVEN THOUGH IT WAS ON THE ATIS, IT COULD HAVE HELPED.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.