37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 120979 |
Time | |
Date | 198908 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : cle |
State Reference | OH |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 17000 msl bound upper : 17250 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zob artcc : cyqx |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude cruise other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 5000 flight time type : 520 |
ASRS Report | 120979 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : clearance |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Climbing to 17,000' with first officer flying. Our company requires us to set QFE for takeoff and change to qnh by 10,000' AGL. At 10,000', I challenged first officer on 'altimeters' (as required by checklist). To the best of my knowledge, he responded 'reset'. I always check visually to determine all altimeters are indeed reset. But at night, it is difficult to see first officer altimeter, particularly if he turns instrument lights to low intensity, which he had. I also made a PA immediately thereafter, pointing out a landmark, which may have been partially responsible for not checking the first officer altimeter more carefully. The first officer altimeter was not reset. Therefore, his read about 500' lower than actual. As I was making PA, I heard 'altitude' warning and saw us passing through 17,250'. We immediately corrected back. This is not the first, not I'm afraid the last, incident of this type with our company. The FAA should require all air carriers to set qnh for takeoff. For my part, I will never make PA's during any transition maneuvers again (approaching level off, course changes, etc.). Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following: company flight administration insists on maintaining the qnh/QFE altimeter policy. Most of the pilots have a high regard for QFE set in the altimeter for approach. It makes every approach the same with the same numbers to look for (zero altitude on the ground). Most of the pilots I talk to dislike QFE for takeoff and climb. The suggestion has been made to management many times to use QFE for approach but not for takeoff and climb. I plan to work through our safety committee to get a consensus of opinion and again approach the company with a suggested change in procedure.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FLT CREW OF MLG OVERSHOT ASSIGNED ALT.
Narrative: CLIMBING TO 17,000' WITH F/O FLYING. OUR COMPANY REQUIRES US TO SET QFE FOR TKOF AND CHANGE TO QNH BY 10,000' AGL. AT 10,000', I CHALLENGED F/O ON 'ALTIMETERS' (AS REQUIRED BY CHECKLIST). TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, HE RESPONDED 'RESET'. I ALWAYS CHECK VISUALLY TO DETERMINE ALL ALTIMETERS ARE INDEED RESET. BUT AT NIGHT, IT IS DIFFICULT TO SEE F/O ALTIMETER, PARTICULARLY IF HE TURNS INSTRUMENT LIGHTS TO LOW INTENSITY, WHICH HE HAD. I ALSO MADE A PA IMMEDIATELY THEREAFTER, POINTING OUT A LANDMARK, WHICH MAY HAVE BEEN PARTIALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR NOT CHECKING THE F/O ALTIMETER MORE CAREFULLY. THE F/O ALTIMETER WAS NOT RESET. THEREFORE, HIS READ ABOUT 500' LOWER THAN ACTUAL. AS I WAS MAKING PA, I HEARD 'ALT' WARNING AND SAW US PASSING THROUGH 17,250'. WE IMMEDIATELY CORRECTED BACK. THIS IS NOT THE FIRST, NOT I'M AFRAID THE LAST, INCIDENT OF THIS TYPE WITH OUR COMPANY. THE FAA SHOULD REQUIRE ALL AIR CARRIERS TO SET QNH FOR TKOF. FOR MY PART, I WILL NEVER MAKE PA'S DURING ANY TRANSITION MANEUVERS AGAIN (APCHING LEVEL OFF, COURSE CHANGES, ETC.). CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH REPORTER REVEALED THE FOLLOWING: COMPANY FLT ADMINISTRATION INSISTS ON MAINTAINING THE QNH/QFE ALTIMETER POLICY. MOST OF THE PLTS HAVE A HIGH REGARD FOR QFE SET IN THE ALTIMETER FOR APCH. IT MAKES EVERY APCH THE SAME WITH THE SAME NUMBERS TO LOOK FOR (ZERO ALT ON THE GND). MOST OF THE PLTS I TALK TO DISLIKE QFE FOR TKOF AND CLIMB. THE SUGGESTION HAS BEEN MADE TO MGMNT MANY TIMES TO USE QFE FOR APCH BUT NOT FOR TKOF AND CLIMB. I PLAN TO WORK THROUGH OUR SAFETY COMMITTEE TO GET A CONSENSUS OF OPINION AND AGAIN APCH THE COMPANY WITH A SUGGESTED CHANGE IN PROC.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.