Narrative:

We were approximately 100 mi west of fnt when we were given a descent restriction of FL240, 65 mi northwest of fnt. Fnt was not on our route of flight, therefore, in order to enter the restriction into the legs page of our FMC it was necessary to built it into our route at the appropriate place. The FMC will not accept 65 northwest of fnt because of other points along our route between fnt and the 65 mi point. Therefore, it was necessary to subtract the appropriate amount of distance from the closest point to the east of the 65 mi point. I accomplished this and made the restriction as requested. Then while talking to dtw approach control, we were given holding instructions. The instructions were to hold northwest of the svm 322/25 fix right turns, 10 mi legs at FL200, efc at 2010. Again svm was not on our route. Therefore, it had to be programmed into the legs page of the FMC at the appropriate point then the holding information had to be put into the holding page. I entered the information correctly except that I entered svm 322 degree radial and left out the 25 DME fix. I backed up the holding fix with the VOR by manually tuning the svm VOR and 322 degree radial again without checking the 25 DME fix. While we were doing this the controller changed our assigned altitude approximately 5 times to eventually 12,000'. The controller was very busy and called us XX1234 instead of XX234. There was another aircraft with same numbers as the first 2 digits of its 4 number call sign and it appeared he was combining our call sign with his. While I was off the ATC frequency talking to the company about our delay, ATC called and told us we were past our holding fix. Make an immediate left turn and level at 13,000'. We accomplished that, as requested. I immediately realized my mistake and began to rebuild the route that we were originally filed (on the FMC) and establish the correct holding fix. After this was accomplished we discovered that the holding fix that we were assigned was 2 mi west of pinto intersection. Pinto was on our original route of flight. Dtw approach control had been giving other aircraft instructions to hold at pinto. My question is why weren't we given the same instructions? It seems unwise to give us holding instructions off of a NAVAID that wasn't on our route of flight that placed us 2 mi west of a point (pinto) that was on our route of flight. While everything that was given to us was legal, I believe there was a better way of doing it. The error was mine, however, I feel that controllers need to understand the increase in workload that is placed on a 2-MAN crew using an FMC when given restrictions and holding instructions off of a fix not on their route. Not to mention the chance of error. I understand that there are operational requirements to do this from time to time, however, I don't believe this was the case. We were essentially at the same point in the sky but approach control decided to define it with a NAVAID not on our route as opposed to a point that was.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: APCH CTLR GAVE ADVANCED COCKPIT TYPE ACFT CLRNC THAT WAS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THE PROGRAM IN THE ACFT FMC.

Narrative: WE WERE APPROX 100 MI W OF FNT WHEN WE WERE GIVEN A DSCNT RESTRICTION OF FL240, 65 MI NW OF FNT. FNT WAS NOT ON OUR ROUTE OF FLT, THEREFORE, IN ORDER TO ENTER THE RESTRICTION INTO THE LEGS PAGE OF OUR FMC IT WAS NECESSARY TO BUILT IT INTO OUR ROUTE AT THE APPROPRIATE PLACE. THE FMC WILL NOT ACCEPT 65 NW OF FNT BECAUSE OF OTHER POINTS ALONG OUR ROUTE BETWEEN FNT AND THE 65 MI POINT. THEREFORE, IT WAS NECESSARY TO SUBTRACT THE APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF DISTANCE FROM THE CLOSEST POINT TO THE E OF THE 65 MI POINT. I ACCOMPLISHED THIS AND MADE THE RESTRICTION AS REQUESTED. THEN WHILE TALKING TO DTW APCH CTL, WE WERE GIVEN HOLDING INSTRUCTIONS. THE INSTRUCTIONS WERE TO HOLD NW OF THE SVM 322/25 FIX RIGHT TURNS, 10 MI LEGS AT FL200, EFC AT 2010. AGAIN SVM WAS NOT ON OUR ROUTE. THEREFORE, IT HAD TO BE PROGRAMMED INTO THE LEGS PAGE OF THE FMC AT THE APPROPRIATE POINT THEN THE HOLDING INFO HAD TO BE PUT INTO THE HOLDING PAGE. I ENTERED THE INFO CORRECTLY EXCEPT THAT I ENTERED SVM 322 DEG RADIAL AND LEFT OUT THE 25 DME FIX. I BACKED UP THE HOLDING FIX WITH THE VOR BY MANUALLY TUNING THE SVM VOR AND 322 DEG RADIAL AGAIN WITHOUT CHECKING THE 25 DME FIX. WHILE WE WERE DOING THIS THE CTLR CHANGED OUR ASSIGNED ALT APPROX 5 TIMES TO EVENTUALLY 12,000'. THE CTLR WAS VERY BUSY AND CALLED US XX1234 INSTEAD OF XX234. THERE WAS ANOTHER ACFT WITH SAME NUMBERS AS THE FIRST 2 DIGITS OF ITS 4 NUMBER CALL SIGN AND IT APPEARED HE WAS COMBINING OUR CALL SIGN WITH HIS. WHILE I WAS OFF THE ATC FREQ TALKING TO THE COMPANY ABOUT OUR DELAY, ATC CALLED AND TOLD US WE WERE PAST OUR HOLDING FIX. MAKE AN IMMEDIATE LEFT TURN AND LEVEL AT 13,000'. WE ACCOMPLISHED THAT, AS REQUESTED. I IMMEDIATELY REALIZED MY MISTAKE AND BEGAN TO REBUILD THE ROUTE THAT WE WERE ORIGINALLY FILED (ON THE FMC) AND ESTABLISH THE CORRECT HOLDING FIX. AFTER THIS WAS ACCOMPLISHED WE DISCOVERED THAT THE HOLDING FIX THAT WE WERE ASSIGNED WAS 2 MI W OF PINTO INTXN. PINTO WAS ON OUR ORIGINAL ROUTE OF FLT. DTW APCH CTL HAD BEEN GIVING OTHER ACFT INSTRUCTIONS TO HOLD AT PINTO. MY QUESTION IS WHY WEREN'T WE GIVEN THE SAME INSTRUCTIONS? IT SEEMS UNWISE TO GIVE US HOLDING INSTRUCTIONS OFF OF A NAVAID THAT WASN'T ON OUR ROUTE OF FLT THAT PLACED US 2 MI W OF A POINT (PINTO) THAT WAS ON OUR ROUTE OF FLT. WHILE EVERYTHING THAT WAS GIVEN TO US WAS LEGAL, I BELIEVE THERE WAS A BETTER WAY OF DOING IT. THE ERROR WAS MINE, HOWEVER, I FEEL THAT CTLRS NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE INCREASE IN WORKLOAD THAT IS PLACED ON A 2-MAN CREW USING AN FMC WHEN GIVEN RESTRICTIONS AND HOLDING INSTRUCTIONS OFF OF A FIX NOT ON THEIR ROUTE. NOT TO MENTION THE CHANCE OF ERROR. I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE OPERATIONAL REQUIREMENTS TO DO THIS FROM TIME TO TIME, HOWEVER, I DON'T BELIEVE THIS WAS THE CASE. WE WERE ESSENTIALLY AT THE SAME POINT IN THE SKY BUT APCH CTL DECIDED TO DEFINE IT WITH A NAVAID NOT ON OUR ROUTE AS OPPOSED TO A POINT THAT WAS.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.