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Air carrier flight crew; after pushback and start; were unsure where ramp authority ended and ground control authority began. Ground control advised them they may have taxied too far without talking to ground. The crew notes that the 10-9 and 10-7C depictions and the airport signage provide conflicting information.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 1272454 |
| Time | |
| Date | 201506 |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201-1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | EWR.Airport |
| State Reference | NJ |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Make Model Name | Large Transport Low Wing 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Flight Phase | Taxi |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Function | Pilot Flying Captain |
| Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
| Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 224 Flight Crew Type 7000 |
| Person 2 | |
| Function | First Officer Pilot Not Flying |
| Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
| Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 248 Flight Crew Type 1500 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy Deviation - Procedural Clearance Ground Incursion Taxiway |
Narrative:
After pushback from gate X at ewr; we called for taxi clearance and ramp control cleared us to 'taxi romeo alpha; contact ground 121.8.' we proceeded to taxi from the ramp onto taxiway RA. The ground control frequency was saturated; so I stopped the aircraft on RA before the taxiway a / taxiway B spilt; and waited for an opportunity to request further taxi clearance from ground control. When we were able to contact ground; the controller was concerned that we may have taxied too far on an 'active taxiway' without talking to ground. We explained we were stopped and waiting for an opportunity to get a transmission in. The controller then issued taxi instructions to runway 4L; and we departed uneventfully.it is unclear where the ramp control jurisdiction ends and ground control begins. The 10-7C safety alert page shows only a small non-movement area which does not include the gates or ramp. This is inconsistent with actual control practices; in which ramp controls inbound aircraft all the way to the gate. The 10-9 diagram also does not match the 10-7C depiction of taxiway RA; which is longer than what is depicted on the 10-9. ATC signage for RA also does not match the 10-9. And 'ramp control 129.07' is depicted on the 10-7 between gate 15 and RA; implying that ramp control; not ground; is responsible for those areas even though it is not the same non-movement area depicted on the 10-7C.we followed ramp control's instructions to the letter; but ground control was not in agreement. Stopping on RA minimized any possible transgression; and when we stopped; we were still in compliance with our last clearance from ramp control. Ramp control did not issue any hold short instructions; but we held short on RA out of an abundance of caution.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: Air carrier flight crew; after pushback and start; were unsure where Ramp authority ended and Ground Control authority began. Ground Control advised them they may have taxied too far without talking to Ground. The crew notes that the 10-9 and 10-7C depictions and the airport signage provide conflicting information.
Narrative: After pushback from Gate X at EWR; we called for taxi clearance and Ramp Control cleared us to 'Taxi ROMEO ALPHA; Contact Ground 121.8.' We proceeded to taxi from the ramp onto Taxiway RA. The Ground Control frequency was saturated; so I stopped the aircraft on RA before the Taxiway A / Taxiway B spilt; and waited for an opportunity to request further taxi clearance from Ground Control. When we were able to contact Ground; the Controller was concerned that we may have taxied too far on an 'active taxiway' without talking to Ground. We explained we were stopped and waiting for an opportunity to get a transmission in. The Controller then issued taxi instructions to Runway 4L; and we departed uneventfully.It is unclear where the Ramp Control jurisdiction ends and Ground Control begins. The 10-7C SAFETY ALERT page shows only a small non-movement area which does not include the gates or ramp. This is inconsistent with actual control practices; in which Ramp controls inbound aircraft all the way to the gate. The 10-9 diagram also does not match the 10-7C depiction of Taxiway RA; which is longer than what is depicted on the 10-9. ATC signage for RA also does not match the 10-9. And 'Ramp Control 129.07' is depicted on the 10-7 between Gate 15 and RA; implying that Ramp Control; not Ground; is responsible for those areas even though it is not the same NON-MOVEMENT area depicted on the 10-7C.We followed Ramp Control's instructions to the letter; but Ground Control was not in agreement. Stopping on RA minimized any possible transgression; and when we stopped; we were still in compliance with our last clearance from Ramp Control. Ramp Control did not issue any hold short instructions; but we held short on RA out of an abundance of caution.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.