 |
37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Less than standard separation between 2 commuter mdt aircraft opposite direction on intersecting airways.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 129144 |
| Time | |
| Date | 198911 |
| Day | Fri |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : gsh |
| State Reference | IN |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 11500 msl bound upper : 12000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | Mixed |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Medium Transport, High Wing, 2 Turboprop Eng |
| Flight Phase | cruise other descent other |
| Route In Use | enroute airway : v92 |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Medium Transport, High Wing, 2 Turboprop Eng |
| Flight Phase | cruise other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 6300 flight time type : 2000 |
| ASRS Report | 129144 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 15000 flight time type : 3000 |
| ASRS Report | 129250 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : required legal separation non adherence : clearance |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
| Consequence | faa : investigated |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 18000 vertical : 500 |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
During cruise at 16000' the F/a came forward. I had the right ear piece of my headset off to hear the F/a and had the left side on to hear ATC. During the conversation center issued a descent. I believe that we were given 11000'. I set 11000' in the altitude select and started a descent. The copilot acknowledged the clearance. The F/a left the cockpit and we remarked to each other that 11000' would probably put us in the overcast and icing. Passing 11500' the controller asked us to verify our altitude. When we told him that we were descending to 11000', he responded that we were only cleared to 12000'. He then issued an immediate descent to 9000' and a turn to 180 degrees to avoid a conflict with opp direction traffic at 11000'. Although 11000' is a wrong altitude for direction, as we were wbound, this is not an unusual occurrence due to high traffic vol near mdw and ord. I don't know if we are to blame or if it was the controller error. With the situation in our cockpit it is possible that I did not hear ATC correctly. In the future my new rule is that only the PNF may engage the F/a in conversation--the PF keeps his/her headset fully on and handles all communications with ATC. Supplemental information from acn 129250: ord-fwa en route 11000'. We were told to make immediate left turn to 040 degrees and climb to 12000'. We suspected a near miss from some remarks center made to another flight that was supposed to be at 12000'.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LESS THAN STANDARD SEPARATION BETWEEN 2 COMMUTER MDT ACFT OPPOSITE DIRECTION ON INTERSECTING AIRWAYS.
Narrative: DURING CRUISE AT 16000' THE F/A CAME FORWARD. I HAD THE RIGHT EAR PIECE OF MY HEADSET OFF TO HEAR THE F/A AND HAD THE LEFT SIDE ON TO HEAR ATC. DURING THE CONVERSATION CENTER ISSUED A DSCNT. I BELIEVE THAT WE WERE GIVEN 11000'. I SET 11000' IN THE ALT SELECT AND STARTED A DSCNT. THE COPLT ACKNOWLEDGED THE CLRNC. THE F/A LEFT THE COCKPIT AND WE REMARKED TO EACH OTHER THAT 11000' WOULD PROBABLY PUT US IN THE OVCST AND ICING. PASSING 11500' THE CTLR ASKED US TO VERIFY OUR ALT. WHEN WE TOLD HIM THAT WE WERE DSNDING TO 11000', HE RESPONDED THAT WE WERE ONLY CLRED TO 12000'. HE THEN ISSUED AN IMMEDIATE DSCNT TO 9000' AND A TURN TO 180 DEGS TO AVOID A CONFLICT WITH OPP DIRECTION TFC AT 11000'. ALTHOUGH 11000' IS A WRONG ALT FOR DIRECTION, AS WE WERE WBOUND, THIS IS NOT AN UNUSUAL OCCURRENCE DUE TO HIGH TFC VOL NEAR MDW AND ORD. I DON'T KNOW IF WE ARE TO BLAME OR IF IT WAS THE CTLR ERROR. WITH THE SITUATION IN OUR COCKPIT IT IS POSSIBLE THAT I DID NOT HEAR ATC CORRECTLY. IN THE FUTURE MY NEW RULE IS THAT ONLY THE PNF MAY ENGAGE THE F/A IN CONVERSATION--THE PF KEEPS HIS/HER HEADSET FULLY ON AND HANDLES ALL COMS WITH ATC. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 129250: ORD-FWA ENRTE 11000'. WE WERE TOLD TO MAKE IMMEDIATE LEFT TURN TO 040 DEGS AND CLB TO 12000'. WE SUSPECTED A NEAR MISS FROM SOME REMARKS CENTER MADE TO ANOTHER FLT THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AT 12000'.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.