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Confusion in altitude clearance between air carrier medium large transport and TRACON on packk 2 SID at rdu.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 136781 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199002 |
| Day | Thu |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : rdu |
| State Reference | NC |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 5000 msl bound upper : 12000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : rdu |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
| Route In Use | departure other departure sid : sid enroute : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : atp pilot : commercial |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 142 flight time total : 16000 flight time type : 6000 |
| ASRS Report | 136781 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 11000 flight time type : 800 |
| ASRS Report | 136791 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot conflict : airborne less severe other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
Flight departed rdu in VFR conditions en route to clt. Runway 23L clearance was IFR rdu-clt with the pack 2 departure SID. After takeoff, clearance received from rdu departure control to turn to 'heading of 290, intercept liberty transition route'. First officer, (not flying) was handling radios and altitude alert control. He said he received clearance to climb to 12000' and read back clearance. He re-set altitude from 5000' to 12000'. I looked over and saw 12000'- continued climb. Rdu departure control subsequently called turbo-jet traffic at 10 O'clock position at right angles to us at 10000'. We both saw the traffic. As we continued climb through about 8500', rdu departure crl asked what our altitude was. We replied 'cleared to 12000'', rdu said he didn't clear us to 12000'. We replied we received clearance and read back clearance. The controller said he didn't think he cleared us to 12000' but acknowledged we had the traffic he called visually. The controller said he cleared us (from 5000' per SID) to 7000' only. Supplemental information from acn 136791. The captain and me both saw this traffic, which was not a factor, and I reported that we had a visual on the traffic. If I misunderstood the controller. He in turn, misunderstood me when I read back the clearance to climb to 12000'.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CONFUSION IN ALT CLRNC BETWEEN ACR MLG AND TRACON ON PACKK 2 SID AT RDU.
Narrative: FLT DEPARTED RDU IN VFR CONDITIONS ENRTE TO CLT. RWY 23L CLRNC WAS IFR RDU-CLT WITH THE PACK 2 DEP SID. AFTER TKOF, CLRNC RECEIVED FROM RDU DEP CTL TO TURN TO 'HDG OF 290, INTERCEPT LIBERTY TRANSITION ROUTE'. F/O, (NOT FLYING) WAS HANDLING RADIOS AND ALT ALERT CONTROL. HE SAID HE RECEIVED CLRNC TO CLB TO 12000' AND READ BACK CLRNC. HE RE-SET ALT FROM 5000' TO 12000'. I LOOKED OVER AND SAW 12000'- CONTINUED CLB. RDU DEP CTL SUBSEQUENTLY CALLED TURBO-JET TFC AT 10 O'CLOCK POS AT R ANGLES TO US AT 10000'. WE BOTH SAW THE TFC. AS WE CONTINUED CLB THROUGH ABOUT 8500', RDU DEP CRL ASKED WHAT OUR ALT WAS. WE REPLIED 'CLRED TO 12000'', RDU SAID HE DIDN'T CLR US TO 12000'. WE REPLIED WE RECEIVED CLRNC AND READ BACK CLRNC. THE CTLR SAID HE DIDN'T THINK HE CLRED US TO 12000' BUT ACKNOWLEDGED WE HAD THE TFC HE CALLED VISUALLY. THE CTLR SAID HE CLRED US (FROM 5000' PER SID) TO 7000' ONLY. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 136791. THE CAPT AND ME BOTH SAW THIS TFC, WHICH WAS NOT A FACTOR, AND I RPTED THAT WE HAD A VISUAL ON THE TFC. IF I MISUNDERSTOOD THE CTLR. HE IN TURN, MISUNDERSTOOD ME WHEN I READ BACK THE CLRNC TO CLB TO 12000'.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.