Narrative:

This was a dual instructional flight. I was the CFI. The student was a private pilot - glider receiving training for his asel rating and tailwheel endorsement. We had flown together about 6 times previously and I felt he was doing well. This was the first landing of the lesson and the student was pilot flying. He performed a normal wheel landing but lost directional control as the tail settled. The right main gear lifted off the ground and the aircraft veered to the right. I took control but was unable to prevent the aircraft from departing the right side of runway 30L between taxiways east and B. I had full left rudder deflection and initially right aileron; but there is a gully between 30L and 30R which I saw no way of avoiding; so I quickly switched to full left aileron to keep the aircraft from tilting to the right as the right main gear encountered the gully first. We proceeded down the side of the gully at an angle still holding full left rudder/aileron and up elevator; brakes as necessary. I was able to bring the aircraft to the left enough to avoid nosing into the swamp at the bottom; and we came to rest upright.I believe there are some salient points to make about this occurrence:first; although the wind was reported calm; this airport is notorious for sudden wind shifts; and since the anemometer is located some way downhill southeast of the airport center; wind reports must be taken advisably. Shortly after the occurrence; the wind had shifted to a light quartering tailwind and the active runways were changed to 12L/right. This wind condition is not conducive to directional control in tailwheel aircraft and may have been the initial cause for the student's loss of control. Second; the cessna 172; although a fine aircraft in its stock version; seems in my opinion to lack sufficient rudder authority in its tailwheel configuration. It also feels as if the landing gear is too far forward of the C.G.; thus increasing its propensity to ground loop.finally; the presence of so extensive an excavation between two runways seems an invitation to disaster; although the tower and emergency personnel told me there have been several similar excursions into the pit; so to speak. And it must be admitted that the presence of such a barrier prevents incursions onto the parallel runway.I have been flying tailwheel aircraft since 1968; have over 4500 hours of dual given; and that's what I think.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: C172 Instructor in the tailwheel version of the aircraft reported his student lost directional control on landing roll and the aircraft departed the runway.

Narrative: This was a dual instructional flight. I was the CFI. The student was a Private Pilot - Glider receiving training for his ASEL rating and tailwheel endorsement. We had flown together about 6 times previously and I felt he was doing well. This was the first landing of the lesson and the student was Pilot Flying. He performed a normal wheel landing but lost directional control as the tail settled. The right main gear lifted off the ground and the aircraft veered to the right. I took control but was unable to prevent the aircraft from departing the right side of runway 30L between taxiways E and B. I had full left rudder deflection and initially right aileron; but there is a gully between 30L and 30R which I saw no way of avoiding; so I quickly switched to full left aileron to keep the aircraft from tilting to the right as the right main gear encountered the gully first. We proceeded down the side of the gully at an angle still holding full left rudder/aileron and up elevator; brakes as necessary. I was able to bring the aircraft to the left enough to avoid nosing into the swamp at the bottom; and we came to rest upright.I believe there are some salient points to make about this occurrence:First; although the wind was reported calm; this airport is notorious for sudden wind shifts; and since the anemometer is located some way downhill SE of the airport center; wind reports must be taken advisably. Shortly after the occurrence; the wind had shifted to a light quartering tailwind and the active runways were changed to 12L/R. This wind condition is not conducive to directional control in tailwheel aircraft and may have been the initial cause for the student's loss of control. Second; the Cessna 172; although a fine aircraft in its stock version; seems in my opinion to lack sufficient rudder authority in its tailwheel configuration. It also feels as if the landing gear is too far forward of the C.G.; thus increasing its propensity to ground loop.Finally; the presence of so extensive an excavation BETWEEN TWO RUNWAYS seems an invitation to disaster; although the tower and emergency personnel told me there have been several similar excursions into the pit; so to speak. And it must be admitted that the presence of such a barrier prevents incursions onto the parallel runway.I have been flying tailwheel aircraft since 1968; have over 4500 hours of dual given; and that's what I think.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.