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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1384731 |
Time | |
Date | 201609 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801-2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | ZDV.ARTCC |
State Reference | CO |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Marginal |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Descent |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Flight Phase | Descent |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | Enroute |
Qualification | Air Traffic Control Fully Certified |
Experience | Air Traffic Control Time Certified In Pos 1 (yrs) 11 |
Events | |
Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types Airspace Violation All Types Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy Deviation - Track / Heading All Types Inflight Event / Encounter Weather / Turbulence |
Narrative:
Prior to taking the radar position the controller in charge (controller in charge) told me regarding the denver arrivals to continue to run them in north of ramms 5 miles in trail as long as we can. I took the sector and during the briefing the controller told me the previous aircraft had gone over ramms but weather had built up and the current aircraft were deviating north. At the same time I took the sector a radar assist was assigned to the sector as well. We pointed out [three aircraft] to sector 21 as they deviated and were descending into den. We originally pointed aircraft X out to north departure and then coordinated with ramms/tomsn sector what the aircraft were going to do. The ramms/tomsn controller told my assist they were not going to take the airplanes because they were not going into their airspace. My assist called north departure to further coordinate with them and they did not want the aircraft because they don't work arrivals. They then told my assist they would have to have a traffic management coordinator talk with us.all of this loud distraction is going on while aircraft are approaching the denver approach boundary and deviating in weather. Along with more aircraft still coming. I am pretty sure that while denver approach was trying to figure out if they could actually take the airplane I violated north departure airspace with aircraft Y. I am really over them refusing to take airplanes who are deviating and stuck in weather. We have had multiple instances in our area with them refusing deviating airplanes for a variety of reasons. We continue to get mandatory briefings about clearing planes into weather. I am over their games. We are going to cause aircraft to crash or have passenger injuries if we continue down this road of them refusing aircraft or making us clear them into weather.I have pretty much resigned myself that I will take an airspace deviation verses being forced to put an aircraft into harm's way of weather. It got very loud and distracting in the area and was not safe.denver approach needs to have flexibility when it comes to aircraft deviations. They need to redesign their airspace and have controllers able to work arrivals and departures. They need to quit having their traffic management coordinator answer the lines and approving or disapproving various actions. The working controllers can no longer make their own decisions and this is putting planes at risk. We do not have time to play these games and make multiple phone calls as well as coordinate with our supervisor/controller in charge and traffic management unit.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A Center Controller reported working an aircraft deviating for weather allowed the aircraft to enter an adjacent sector airspace without a point out or handoff.
Narrative: Prior to taking the radar position the Controller in Charge (CIC) told me regarding the Denver Arrivals to continue to run them in north of Ramms 5 miles in trail as long as we can. I took the sector and during the briefing the controller told me the previous aircraft had gone over Ramms but weather had built up and the current aircraft were deviating north. At the same time I took the sector a radar Assist was assigned to the sector as well. We pointed out [three aircraft] to sector 21 as they deviated and were descending into DEN. We originally pointed Aircraft X out to North Departure and then coordinated with RAMMS/TOMSN sector what the aircraft were going to do. The RAMMS/TOMSN controller told my Assist they were not going to take the airplanes because they were not going into their airspace. My Assist called North Departure to further coordinate with them and they did not want the aircraft because they don't work arrivals. They then told my Assist they would have to have a Traffic Management Coordinator talk with us.All of this loud distraction is going on while aircraft are approaching the Denver Approach boundary and deviating in weather. Along with more aircraft still coming. I am pretty sure that while Denver Approach was trying to figure out if they could actually take the airplane I violated North Departure airspace with Aircraft Y. I am really over them refusing to take airplanes who are deviating and stuck in weather. We have had multiple instances in our area with them refusing deviating airplanes for a variety of reasons. We continue to get mandatory briefings about clearing planes into weather. I am over their games. We are going to cause aircraft to crash or have passenger injuries if we continue down this road of them refusing aircraft or making us clear them into weather.I have pretty much resigned myself that I will take an airspace deviation verses being forced to put an aircraft into harm's way of weather. It got very loud and distracting in the area and was not safe.Denver Approach needs to have flexibility when it comes to aircraft deviations. They need to redesign their airspace and have controllers able to work arrivals and departures. They need to quit having their Traffic Management Coordinator answer the lines and approving or disapproving various actions. The working controllers can no longer make their own decisions and this is putting planes at risk. We do not have time to play these games and make multiple phone calls as well as coordinate with our Supervisor/CIC and Traffic Management Unit.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.