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PIC of air carrier large transport complains of long vectors at low altitude on STAR arrival into ewr and the resultant disadvantages of such a procedure.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 143811 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199004 |
| Day | Thu |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : ewr |
| State Reference | NJ |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 6000 msl bound upper : 6000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90 tracon : msp |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
| Flight Phase | cruise other cruise other descent : approach |
| Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star enroute : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 11000 flight time type : 5000 |
| ASRS Report | 143811 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted none taken : unable |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
Ward approach ewr. Given 360 degree heading, 6000' from rbv (charted is 024 degree right/10 mi) for 35 mi as 6000' AGL, then several headings in large 20 mi arc around ewr, then turned to final at approximately 13 mi. One aircraft ahead of us (he had same type approach). No one ahead of him. If there were, he had landed and taxied in before we got to mker bcn for 22 at ewr. Asked for turn closer to airport before we were set up on 20 mi base leg. Given flat refusal for answer. We flew approximately 65 mi at or below 6000' AGL including probably over 20 mi with flaps extended, for extended pattern with few planes in pattern. This seems to be standard arrival at ewr. I made mistake of looking at distances involved and was concerned with aggressive system of mandatory fuel wastage, extra mileage, unacceptable exposure to uncontrolled light VFR traffic, blind slavery to same traffic pattern no matter how much traffic.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: PIC OF ACR LGT COMPLAINS OF LONG VECTORS AT LOW ALT ON STAR ARR INTO EWR AND THE RESULTANT DISADVANTAGES OF SUCH A PROC.
Narrative: WARD APCH EWR. GIVEN 360 DEG HDG, 6000' FROM RBV (CHARTED IS 024 DEG R/10 MI) FOR 35 MI AS 6000' AGL, THEN SEVERAL HDGS IN LARGE 20 MI ARC AROUND EWR, THEN TURNED TO FINAL AT APPROX 13 MI. ONE ACFT AHEAD OF US (HE HAD SAME TYPE APCH). NO ONE AHEAD OF HIM. IF THERE WERE, HE HAD LANDED AND TAXIED IN BEFORE WE GOT TO MKER BCN FOR 22 AT EWR. ASKED FOR TURN CLOSER TO ARPT BEFORE WE WERE SET UP ON 20 MI BASE LEG. GIVEN FLAT REFUSAL FOR ANSWER. WE FLEW APPROX 65 MI AT OR BELOW 6000' AGL INCLUDING PROBABLY OVER 20 MI WITH FLAPS EXTENDED, FOR EXTENDED PATTERN WITH FEW PLANES IN PATTERN. THIS SEEMS TO BE STANDARD ARR AT EWR. I MADE MISTAKE OF LOOKING AT DISTANCES INVOLVED AND WAS CONCERNED WITH AGGRESSIVE SYS OF MANDATORY FUEL WASTAGE, EXTRA MILEAGE, UNACCEPTABLE EXPOSURE TO UNCTLED LIGHT VFR TFC, BLIND SLAVERY TO SAME TFC PATTERN NO MATTER HOW MUCH TFC.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.