37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1456369 |
Time | |
Date | 201706 |
Local Time Of Day | 0001-0600 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | ZZZ.TRACON |
State Reference | US |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | B757 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Descent |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | Pilot Not Flying First Officer |
Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
Person 2 | |
Function | Captain Pilot Flying |
Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
Events | |
Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types Deviation - Altitude Crossing Restriction Not Met Deviation - Procedural Clearance Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy |
Narrative:
We were initially cleared to descend from FL360 to FL240. The captain was (pilot flying) and set FL240 in the MCP (mode control panel) and I; the first officer (pilot monitoring) confirmed. We were then told to descend to 11;000 feet via the arrival. There was lots of confusion with ATC about which arrival we were assigned. Once it was understood that we were a non-RNAV aircraft there was no further discussion of descent clearance that I understood and the MCP was not reset by the PF. As the PF leveled at FL240; he pointed to the MCP altitude window as I (pm) was engaged in confirming descent instructions with the ATC. Just as the PF was telling the pm to ask for lower; ATC asked about our altitude and then cleared us to 5;000 feet. The PF started a steep fast descent to make up for being high. At some point we were cleared to 5000 feet; which was incorrect for our geographical position on the arrival. That required the PF to exceed the speed limit of 280 by 20 kts. We were then cleared again to 11000 feet. The pm then asked if they wanted the speed or the altitude. We were then told to slow to 250 KIAS; then descend to 11;000 feet; which we did and still made [the next waypoint] at 11;000 feet and 250 KIAS. This airplane we flew was non-pegasus (round dial); which is incapable of flying RNAV sids or stars. [This] is a high traffic airport and as usual there was much radio congestion; and a bit of attitude on the part of ATC about our situation. I think that they later realized where the confusion started; which was their difficulty in accommodating a non-RNAV aircraft. The PF was simply doing his best to accommodate the situation and the pm was doing his best to communicate it. With the extreme radio congestion; the pm was unable to effectively communicate what we're doing to solve the problems created in part by flying this airplane in an RNAV environment. There was great confusion by ATC in instructing us to perform RNAV procedures in a non-RNAV aircraft; thus everyone got behind.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B757 flight crew reported that air traffic controllers are instructing 757's to perform RNAV procedures that basic 757s are not capable of.
Narrative: We were initially cleared to descend from FL360 to FL240. The Captain was (Pilot Flying) and set FL240 in the MCP (Mode Control Panel) and I; the FO (Pilot Monitoring) confirmed. We were then told to descend to 11;000 feet via the arrival. There was lots of confusion with ATC about which arrival we were assigned. Once it was understood that we were a non-RNAV aircraft there was no further discussion of descent clearance that I understood and the MCP was not reset by the PF. As the PF leveled at FL240; he pointed to the MCP ALT window as I (PM) was engaged in confirming descent instructions with the ATC. Just as the PF was telling the PM to ask for lower; ATC asked about our altitude and then cleared us to 5;000 feet. The PF started a steep fast descent to make up for being high. At some point we were cleared to 5000 feet; which was incorrect for our geographical position on the arrival. That required the PF to exceed the speed limit of 280 by 20 kts. We were then cleared again to 11000 feet. The PM then asked if they wanted the speed or the altitude. We were then told to slow to 250 KIAS; then descend to 11;000 feet; which we did and still made [the next waypoint] at 11;000 feet and 250 KIAS. This airplane we flew was non-pegasus (round dial); which is incapable of flying RNAV SIDS or STARS. [This] is a high traffic airport and as usual there was much radio congestion; and a bit of attitude on the part of ATC about our situation. I think that they later realized where the confusion started; which was their difficulty in accommodating a non-RNAV aircraft. The PF was simply doing his best to accommodate the situation and the PM was doing his best to communicate it. With the extreme radio congestion; the PM was unable to effectively communicate what we're doing to solve the problems created in part by flying this airplane in an RNAV environment. There was great confusion by ATC in instructing us to perform RNAV procedures in a non-RNAV aircraft; thus everyone got behind.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.