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International air carrier first officer complains of phraseology and communication procedure from foreign ATC controller as clearance is disputed during descent procedure.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 146045 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199005 |
| Day | Sat |
| Local Time Of Day | 0001 To 0600 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : sam |
| State Reference | FO |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 33800 msl bound upper : 35000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : egtt |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 4 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | descent other |
| Route In Use | arrival other enroute : other oceanic |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 96 flight time total : 8500 flight time type : 450 |
| ASRS Report | 146045 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
| Air Traffic Incident | Operational Deviation other other |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
London control issued us a clearance to cross 20 west of sam at FL260. At approximately 40 mi after our top of descent point, london control issued a non standard clearance stating, 'we need you at 3-5 now.' I interpreted that to mean they wanted us out of FL350 at that time. I responded, 'roger we are out of 3-9-0 at this time.' we began our descent to FL260. (Note: london never said the word 'maintain' in the second clearance.) at 33800' london said we were cleared to 35000'. We said we would climb back to 35000' and they responded just continue to FL260. It would have helped if the controller did not use the word 'now.' most controllers use the word now when they want an immediate climb, descent or turn. It would have helped if the controller used the word 'maintain' in his revised clearance to a new altitude.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: INTERNATIONAL ACR FO COMPLAINS OF PHRASEOLOGY AND COM PROC FROM FOREIGN ATC CTLR AS CLRNC IS DISPUTED DURING DESCENT PROC.
Narrative: LONDON CTL ISSUED US A CLRNC TO CROSS 20 W OF SAM AT FL260. AT APPROX 40 MI AFTER OUR TOP OF DSNT POINT, LONDON CTL ISSUED A NON STANDARD CLRNC STATING, 'WE NEED YOU AT 3-5 NOW.' I INTERPRETED THAT TO MEAN THEY WANTED US OUT OF FL350 AT THAT TIME. I RESPONDED, 'ROGER WE ARE OUT OF 3-9-0 AT THIS TIME.' WE BEGAN OUR DSNT TO FL260. (NOTE: LONDON NEVER SAID THE WORD 'MAINTAIN' IN THE SECOND CLRNC.) AT 33800' LONDON SAID WE WERE CLRED TO 35000'. WE SAID WE WOULD CLB BACK TO 35000' AND THEY RESPONDED JUST CONTINUE TO FL260. IT WOULD HAVE HELPED IF THE CTLR DID NOT USE THE WORD 'NOW.' MOST CTLRS USE THE WORD NOW WHEN THEY WANT AN IMMEDIATE CLB, DSNT OR TURN. IT WOULD HAVE HELPED IF THE CTLR USED THE WORD 'MAINTAIN' IN HIS REVISED CLRNC TO A NEW ALT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.