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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 149805 |
Time | |
Date | 199007 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 0001 To 0600 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : psp |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 4000 msl bound upper : 5000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zla |
Operator | common carrier : air taxi |
Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude ground : preflight other |
Route In Use | departure other departure sid : sid |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air taxi |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 160 flight time total : 11000 flight time type : 250 |
ASRS Report | 149805 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air taxi |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 174 flight time total : 11000 |
ASRS Report | 149797 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other spatial deviation other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Departing psp tower cleared communicating through FSS. Taking off on runway 30. Requested lost communication departure to minimize west track as destination was east. FSS was initially confused. Explained we wanted him to contact center for lost communication procedure approval. He replied we were to fly departure as cleared (i.e., runway heading). After takeoff, another company aircraft was relaying to ZLA, requesting turn east for us. West/O clearance we turned and after heading east for some time contacted center ourselves. ATC was concerned about our terrain clearance west of psp. We felt we turned early enough to remain clear. Due to the delay in relaying our altitude during climb ATC probably was 4000-5000' behind our climb. Suggest note be added to departure indicating to expect communication problems when tower is inoperative and fly lost communication procedures; or better, ATC should issue the information and add clearance to the first navigation point after takeoff. We found it is normal not to be able to talk to ATC until 10000-12000'. After reviewing exactly what happened I am disappointed in my judgement and awareness of what was occurring. We were in communication so the lost communication procedures went on hold; however, we were not in direct communication with the people we needed to talk to. The commitment to strictly adhere to clrncs fogged the proper action--if not in contact with ATC passing radial, turn to VOR and climb to assigned altitude. After 20 yrs of military single seat mixed with 20 yrs part 121, I am sick and scared that I got sucked into a position where I could have hurt some people. Contributing: first time at field, unfamiliar, no tower/FSS phone clear (my second time since 1964), a lengthy maintenance delay, 18 hours on duty, the confusion of the relays, the refusal of a turn on course from FSS. We lost the big picture; thank god we didn't lose more. Never again!
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: SUPPLEMENTAL ACR WDB FLT CREW ATTEMPTS TO AD LIB A NIGHTTIME DEP FROM PSP.
Narrative: DEPARTING PSP TWR CLRED COMMUNICATING THROUGH FSS. TAKING OFF ON RWY 30. REQUESTED LOST COM DEP TO MINIMIZE W TRACK AS DEST WAS E. FSS WAS INITIALLY CONFUSED. EXPLAINED WE WANTED HIM TO CONTACT CENTER FOR LOST COM PROC APPROVAL. HE REPLIED WE WERE TO FLY DEP AS CLRED (I.E., RWY HDG). AFTER TKOF, ANOTHER COMPANY ACFT WAS RELAYING TO ZLA, REQUESTING TURN E FOR US. W/O CLRNC WE TURNED AND AFTER HDG E FOR SOME TIME CONTACTED CENTER OURSELVES. ATC WAS CONCERNED ABOUT OUR TERRAIN CLRNC W OF PSP. WE FELT WE TURNED EARLY ENOUGH TO REMAIN CLR. DUE TO THE DELAY IN RELAYING OUR ALT DURING CLB ATC PROBABLY WAS 4000-5000' BEHIND OUR CLB. SUGGEST NOTE BE ADDED TO DEP INDICATING TO EXPECT COM PROBS WHEN TWR IS INOP AND FLY LOST COM PROCS; OR BETTER, ATC SHOULD ISSUE THE INFO AND ADD CLRNC TO THE FIRST NAV POINT AFTER TKOF. WE FOUND IT IS NORMAL NOT TO BE ABLE TO TALK TO ATC UNTIL 10000-12000'. AFTER REVIEWING EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED I AM DISAPPOINTED IN MY JUDGEMENT AND AWARENESS OF WHAT WAS OCCURRING. WE WERE IN COM SO THE LOST COM PROCS WENT ON HOLD; HOWEVER, WE WERE NOT IN DIRECT COM WITH THE PEOPLE WE NEEDED TO TALK TO. THE COMMITMENT TO STRICTLY ADHERE TO CLRNCS FOGGED THE PROPER ACTION--IF NOT IN CONTACT WITH ATC PASSING RADIAL, TURN TO VOR AND CLB TO ASSIGNED ALT. AFTER 20 YRS OF MIL SINGLE SEAT MIXED WITH 20 YRS PART 121, I AM SICK AND SCARED THAT I GOT SUCKED INTO A POS WHERE I COULD HAVE HURT SOME PEOPLE. CONTRIBUTING: FIRST TIME AT FIELD, UNFAMILIAR, NO TWR/FSS PHONE CLR (MY SECOND TIME SINCE 1964), A LENGTHY MAINT DELAY, 18 HRS ON DUTY, THE CONFUSION OF THE RELAYS, THE REFUSAL OF A TURN ON COURSE FROM FSS. WE LOST THE BIG PICTURE; THANK GOD WE DIDN'T LOSE MORE. NEVER AGAIN!
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.