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Flight crew of medium large transport visual to lga airport advised maintain 2500' until established left 2500 on base leg.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 150206 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199007 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : lga |
| State Reference | NY |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 2500 msl bound upper : 2500 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90 tower : lga |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach landing : go around landing other |
| Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : atp pilot : commercial |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 300 flight time total : 16000 flight time type : 4000 |
| ASRS Report | 150206 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : atp pilot : instrument |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 270 flight time total : 5000 flight time type : 270 |
| ASRS Report | 150379 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe other spatial deviation |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Let down to lga in VFR conditions. Lga using VOR G approach to runway 22. Approach control issued clearance, 'cleared for visibility approach to runway 22, maintain 2500' MSL until established' and released us to lga tower. First officer entered left hand, 'close -in' base for ldg. I repeated clearance and switched to tower. I instructed first officer (PF) to 'give yourself plenty of room'. First officer left 2500', when tower controller then asked 'what was our clearance', I reported verbatim and told us to maintain 2000' for copter traffic below us. Tower said we were 'not established on final', since we were 'high'. We abandoned the approach as we xed threshold of runway 22 and asked for a new traffic sequence. We subsequently landed on runway 31 from a visibility left hand 'teardrop' approach. Conclusion: first officer thought we were cleared out of 2500' since 'visibility' approach given either didn't hear or misunderstood 2500' restriction 'until established' phrase seems contradictory. South/B 'until established on final', this is its usual usage.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FLT CREW OF MLG VISUAL TO LGA ARPT ADVISED MAINTAIN 2500' UNTIL ESTABLISHED LEFT 2500 ON BASE LEG.
Narrative: LET DOWN TO LGA IN VFR CONDITIONS. LGA USING VOR G APCH TO RWY 22. APCH CTL ISSUED CLRNC, 'CLRED FOR VIS APCH TO RWY 22, MAINTAIN 2500' MSL UNTIL ESTABLISHED' AND RELEASED US TO LGA TWR. F/O ENTERED L HAND, 'CLOSE -IN' BASE FOR LDG. I REPEATED CLRNC AND SWITCHED TO TWR. I INSTRUCTED F/O (PF) TO 'GIVE YOURSELF PLENTY OF ROOM'. F/O LEFT 2500', WHEN TWR CTLR THEN ASKED 'WHAT WAS OUR CLRNC', I RPTED VERBATIM AND TOLD US TO MAINTAIN 2000' FOR COPTER TFC BELOW US. TWR SAID WE WERE 'NOT ESTABLISHED ON FINAL', SINCE WE WERE 'HIGH'. WE ABANDONED THE APCH AS WE XED THRESHOLD OF RWY 22 AND ASKED FOR A NEW TFC SEQUENCE. WE SUBSEQUENTLY LANDED ON RWY 31 FROM A VIS L HAND 'TEARDROP' APCH. CONCLUSION: F/O THOUGHT WE WERE CLRED OUT OF 2500' SINCE 'VIS' APCH GIVEN EITHER DIDN'T HEAR OR MISUNDERSTOOD 2500' RESTRICTION 'UNTIL ESTABLISHED' PHRASE SEEMS CONTRADICTORY. S/B 'UNTIL ESTABLISHED ON FINAL', THIS IS ITS USUAL USAGE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.