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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 155139 |
Time | |
Date | 199008 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 11700 msl bound upper : 13000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | departure sid : sid enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 10000 |
ASRS Report | 155139 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : undershoot altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : published procedure non adherence : clearance |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted none taken : unable |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
On a loop 7 departure from lax, I xed kegs intersection at approximately 11700' in the climb. I complied with the crossing restriction at coop intersection. I was en route to dtw in an large transport with dash 17 engines at a weight of approximately 190000 pounds at takeoff. I maintained best angle of climb all the way to coop intersection. The controller reported to me at about 4 DME west of lax that I looked low and try to do the best, I can at complying with the restriction. 11700' was the best I could do. I felt if there was a problem the controller would have issued a turn for me, so I continued towards keggs. Contributing factors. I was temporary on the large transport for aug only. Normally I fly the widebody transport. This was my second flight on this model of large transport with dash 17 engines. (First flight was a light plane). On departure the plane climbed well and looked to me like I would not have a problem. After the left turn and commited to fly to lax VOR the ceiling deteriorated and I failed to meet the restriction. Close by no cigar! Fix: when the controller issues the left turn direct lax the aim requires you to start the turn and maintain 'best rate of turn' towards the VOR. I feel the clearance to turn should state 'at pilot's discretion' comply with the restriction. Note: read attached article in an association publication when I returned home from my trip. Different SID, same problem. I feel the 'at pilot's discretion' would help eliminate the problem.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR LGT UNABLE TO COMPLY WITH LOOP ALT RESTRICTION OUT OF LAX.
Narrative: ON A LOOP 7 DEP FROM LAX, I XED KEGS INTXN AT APPROX 11700' IN THE CLB. I COMPLIED WITH THE XING RESTRICTION AT COOP INTXN. I WAS ENRTE TO DTW IN AN LGT WITH DASH 17 ENGS AT A WT OF APPROX 190000 LBS AT TKOF. I MAINTAINED BEST ANGLE OF CLB ALL THE WAY TO COOP INTXN. THE CTLR RPTED TO ME AT ABOUT 4 DME W OF LAX THAT I LOOKED LOW AND TRY TO DO THE BEST, I CAN AT COMPLYING WITH THE RESTRICTION. 11700' WAS THE BEST I COULD DO. I FELT IF THERE WAS A PROB THE CTLR WOULD HAVE ISSUED A TURN FOR ME, SO I CONTINUED TOWARDS KEGGS. CONTRIBUTING FACTORS. I WAS TEMPORARY ON THE LGT FOR AUG ONLY. NORMALLY I FLY THE WDB. THIS WAS MY SECOND FLT ON THIS MODEL OF LGT WITH DASH 17 ENGS. (FIRST FLT WAS A LIGHT PLANE). ON DEP THE PLANE CLBED WELL AND LOOKED TO ME LIKE I WOULD NOT HAVE A PROB. AFTER THE L TURN AND COMMITED TO FLY TO LAX VOR THE CEILING DETERIORATED AND I FAILED TO MEET THE RESTRICTION. CLOSE BY NO CIGAR! FIX: WHEN THE CTLR ISSUES THE L TURN DIRECT LAX THE AIM REQUIRES YOU TO START THE TURN AND MAINTAIN 'BEST RATE OF TURN' TOWARDS THE VOR. I FEEL THE CLRNC TO TURN SHOULD STATE 'AT PLT'S DISCRETION' COMPLY WITH THE RESTRICTION. NOTE: READ ATTACHED ARTICLE IN AN ASSOCIATION PUB WHEN I RETURNED HOME FROM MY TRIP. DIFFERENT SID, SAME PROB. I FEEL THE 'AT PLT'S DISCRETION' WOULD HELP ELIMINATE THE PROB.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.