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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 161124 |
Time | |
Date | 199010 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : lax |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 0 msl bound upper : 4000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | descent : approach landing other |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 220 flight time total : 23000 flight time type : 4000 |
ASRS Report | 161124 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | inflight encounter : weather non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
Cleared to lax via 255 degree heading, V363 to the 25 localizer, maintain 4000'. After takeoff we were assigned a heading to intercept a 25 localizer immediately. We leveled off at 4000', did the climb check, descent check, approach check and brief for the 25L approach. We were then immediately cleared for the 25L approach on the G/south out of 4000', and maintain 230 KTS. Approaching the G/south intercept at 4000', the RVR dropped to below our minimums. Our approach clearance was cancelled. ATC instructions: maintain 4000', turn right 20 degrees, intercept the 24R localizer. The controller gave us the frequency. Snapped off the autoplt, reengaged the autoplt, and intercepted the localizer at 4000'. We were now a 1 1/2 dots above the G/south. I asked the controller, 'how about a right turn around back? We are high.' his answer was 'no, you're clear for the approach; reduce to minimum speed immediately.' the aircraft was empty. Dirtied it up and intercepted the G/south approximately 2500' off the ground. I had reset my landing bugs to the new minimums for 24R. I said to the copilot, 'let's rebrief quickly for 24R.' he said, 'we're not on 24R, we're on 24L.' I said 'no, we're on 24R.' at that time the confusion began. We were inside the marker. I said, 'switch to tower and get it cleared up.' tower said we were cleared to land 24R. The copilot said to me, 'do you mean sidestep?' I said 'no, we're on the right localizer.' he still did not think so. He did not have an approach plate for 24R. He didn't think the approach existed. I showed him mine. At this time he told the controller that we'd like a landing clearance for the left side. They stopped a departure. Meanwhile had cleared us to land on 24R, now on 24L. I broke out at 500', just about ready to go around due to the confusion, and there was 24R, just where it was supposed to be and the WX clearing rapidly. I said to check our landing clearance. He could not get on the frequency. I said, 'are we clear to land?' to the copilot. He said, 'we're clear to land on the left.' before he had cleared us to land on the right. Figuring we had dual landing clearance, I landed on 24R where we were supposed to be. Looking back under the human factors portion, it would have been best probably not to accept the approach clearance at 4000', being pushed into the approach west/O time to do a proper brief. I've been flying in and out of lax for the last 7 yrs, and switching runways back and forth is pretty common. Unfortunately, in a case like this, it's a little bit too quick with the WX like that to get the job done properly. This is due to the speed and time distance problem involved. The second option I had, which I was going to exercise, was a go around at 500'; but, I was convinced I had a dual landing clearance, so we landed. When I broke out at 500', the WX had improved rapidly and had excellent forward visibility al the way down the runway. After landing, I spoke to the supervisor on shift. Their biggest concern was that we had cost them 1 departure. I then asked about our landing clearance. He said I had been cleared to land on 24L. I said I had also been previously cleared to land on 24R by the controller. That's where the conversation ended and no action is being taken.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR IN APCH WITH DIMINISHED WX. CLRNC CHANGED FROM LEFT RWY TO RIGHT RWY. CONFUSION RESULTS.
Narrative: CLRED TO LAX VIA 255 DEG HDG, V363 TO THE 25 LOC, MAINTAIN 4000'. AFTER TKOF WE WERE ASSIGNED A HDG TO INTERCEPT A 25 LOC IMMEDIATELY. WE LEVELED OFF AT 4000', DID THE CLB CHK, DSNT CHK, APCH CHK AND BRIEF FOR THE 25L APCH. WE WERE THEN IMMEDIATELY CLRED FOR THE 25L APCH ON THE G/S OUT OF 4000', AND MAINTAIN 230 KTS. APCHING THE G/S INTERCEPT AT 4000', THE RVR DROPPED TO BELOW OUR MINIMUMS. OUR APCH CLRNC WAS CANCELLED. ATC INSTRUCTIONS: MAINTAIN 4000', TURN RIGHT 20 DEGS, INTERCEPT THE 24R LOC. THE CTLR GAVE US THE FREQ. SNAPPED OFF THE AUTOPLT, REENGAGED THE AUTOPLT, AND INTERCEPTED THE LOC AT 4000'. WE WERE NOW A 1 1/2 DOTS ABOVE THE G/S. I ASKED THE CTLR, 'HOW ABOUT A RIGHT TURN AROUND BACK? WE ARE HIGH.' HIS ANSWER WAS 'NO, YOU'RE CLR FOR THE APCH; REDUCE TO MINIMUM SPD IMMEDIATELY.' THE ACFT WAS EMPTY. DIRTIED IT UP AND INTERCEPTED THE G/S APPROX 2500' OFF THE GND. I HAD RESET MY LNDG BUGS TO THE NEW MINIMUMS FOR 24R. I SAID TO THE COPLT, 'LET'S REBRIEF QUICKLY FOR 24R.' HE SAID, 'WE'RE NOT ON 24R, WE'RE ON 24L.' I SAID 'NO, WE'RE ON 24R.' AT THAT TIME THE CONFUSION BEGAN. WE WERE INSIDE THE MARKER. I SAID, 'SWITCH TO TWR AND GET IT CLRED UP.' TWR SAID WE WERE CLRED TO LAND 24R. THE COPLT SAID TO ME, 'DO YOU MEAN SIDESTEP?' I SAID 'NO, WE'RE ON THE RIGHT LOC.' HE STILL DID NOT THINK SO. HE DID NOT HAVE AN APCH PLATE FOR 24R. HE DIDN'T THINK THE APCH EXISTED. I SHOWED HIM MINE. AT THIS TIME HE TOLD THE CTLR THAT WE'D LIKE A LNDG CLRNC FOR THE LEFT SIDE. THEY STOPPED A DEP. MEANWHILE HAD CLRED US TO LAND ON 24R, NOW ON 24L. I BROKE OUT AT 500', JUST ABOUT READY TO GO AROUND DUE TO THE CONFUSION, AND THERE WAS 24R, JUST WHERE IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AND THE WX CLRING RAPIDLY. I SAID TO CHK OUR LNDG CLRNC. HE COULD NOT GET ON THE FREQ. I SAID, 'ARE WE CLR TO LAND?' TO THE COPLT. HE SAID, 'WE'RE CLR TO LAND ON THE LEFT.' BEFORE HE HAD CLRED US TO LAND ON THE RIGHT. FIGURING WE HAD DUAL LNDG CLRNC, I LANDED ON 24R WHERE WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE. LOOKING BACK UNDER THE HUMAN FACTORS PORTION, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BEST PROBABLY NOT TO ACCEPT THE APCH CLRNC AT 4000', BEING PUSHED INTO THE APCH W/O TIME TO DO A PROPER BRIEF. I'VE BEEN FLYING IN AND OUT OF LAX FOR THE LAST 7 YRS, AND SWITCHING RWYS BACK AND FORTH IS PRETTY COMMON. UNFORTUNATELY, IN A CASE LIKE THIS, IT'S A LITTLE BIT TOO QUICK WITH THE WX LIKE THAT TO GET THE JOB DONE PROPERLY. THIS IS DUE TO THE SPD AND TIME DISTANCE PROB INVOLVED. THE SECOND OPTION I HAD, WHICH I WAS GOING TO EXERCISE, WAS A GAR AT 500'; BUT, I WAS CONVINCED I HAD A DUAL LNDG CLRNC, SO WE LANDED. WHEN I BROKE OUT AT 500', THE WX HAD IMPROVED RAPIDLY AND HAD EXCELLENT FORWARD VISIBILITY AL THE WAY DOWN THE RWY. AFTER LNDG, I SPOKE TO THE SUPVR ON SHIFT. THEIR BIGGEST CONCERN WAS THAT WE HAD COST THEM 1 DEP. I THEN ASKED ABOUT OUR LNDG CLRNC. HE SAID I HAD BEEN CLRED TO LAND ON 24L. I SAID I HAD ALSO BEEN PREVIOUSLY CLRED TO LAND ON 24R BY THE CTLR. THAT'S WHERE THE CONVERSATION ENDED AND NO ACTION IS BEING TAKEN.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.