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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 161459 |
Time | |
Date | 199011 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : ord |
State Reference | IL |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 5300 msl bound upper : 6000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : ord |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | climbout : initial |
Route In Use | departure other enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | other |
Make Model Name | Small Aircraft, High Wing, 1 Eng, Fixed Gear |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 220 flight time total : 11000 flight time type : 590 |
ASRS Report | 161459 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 7000 flight time type : 2000 |
ASRS Report | 161558 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Consequence | faa : investigated faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 6000 vertical : 1000 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
After takeoff at O'hare runway 22L we were told to turn to a heading of 120 degree and climb to 6000'. Passing 5300' the copilot (PNF) questioned departure controller about small plane, (aircraft type) or similar type in our climb out area. Controller said aircraft was a 'patrol' aircraft at 5500' and that was all he was allowed to tell us. As PF I did not see the other aircraft as it was in our 2 O'clock position and hidden from my view by the glareshield and windshield cutoff angle. Controller then turned us to a 090 degree heading and issued climb instructions to 13000'. Copilot said aircraft turned toward us and passed less than 1000' vertically and less than 1 mi horizontally. A verbal exchange took place between the copilot and controller. At this point, another voice said 'forget about it.' after discussion with the O'hare operations acting manager I was told that ATC knew about the patrol aircraft (some type of law enforcement aircraft) and that the controller committed an operational error by clearing us to 6000' initially. The controller also stated that the 'patrol' aircraft made a turn he was not expecting. No evasive action was necessary. Further investigation reveals that this 'patrol' aircraft is allowed to fly in the O'hare TCA and do as he pleases. Others have also had similar incidents. Why is this allowed to continue? A corrective action would simply be to get these airplanes under control or out of the TCA! Supplemental information from acn 161558. Cleared for takeoff runway 22L, climb to 5000', heading 120. Cleared to 6000' on 120 heading, then issued heading 090 to avoid traffic. Traffic called, 5500' ahead, eastbound, patrol aircraft no visibility contact. At about 5500', I see small aircraft type 12 O'clock, our altitude, headed toward us in a steep left turn, less than one mi but radius of action that will put him to our right side. I ask ATC who bozo in small aircraft is. ATC says aircraft is classified and I ask for near miss report. ATC says sep was proper and until patrol aircraft made an unexpected 180 degree turn. A voice at ATC says don't worry about sep. ATC refuses to disclose small aircraft's north number or secret call sign. Captain did not see plane.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A DEPARTING ACR CAME IN CLOSE CONTACT WITH A CIRCLING LAW ENFORCEMENT ACFT WITHIN THE TCA.
Narrative: AFTER TKOF AT O'HARE RWY 22L WE WERE TOLD TO TURN TO A HDG OF 120 DEG AND CLB TO 6000'. PASSING 5300' THE COPLT (PNF) QUESTIONED DEP CTLR ABOUT SMALL PLANE, (ACFT TYPE) OR SIMILAR TYPE IN OUR CLBOUT AREA. CTLR SAID ACFT WAS A 'PATROL' ACFT AT 5500' AND THAT WAS ALL HE WAS ALLOWED TO TELL US. AS PF I DID NOT SEE THE OTHER ACFT AS IT WAS IN OUR 2 O'CLOCK POS AND HIDDEN FROM MY VIEW BY THE GLARESHIELD AND WINDSHIELD CUTOFF ANGLE. CTLR THEN TURNED US TO A 090 DEG HDG AND ISSUED CLB INSTRUCTIONS TO 13000'. COPLT SAID ACFT TURNED TOWARD US AND PASSED LESS THAN 1000' VERTICALLY AND LESS THAN 1 MI HORIZLY. A VERBAL EXCHANGE TOOK PLACE BTWN THE COPLT AND CTLR. AT THIS POINT, ANOTHER VOICE SAID 'FORGET ABOUT IT.' AFTER DISCUSSION WITH THE O'HARE OPS ACTING MGR I WAS TOLD THAT ATC KNEW ABOUT THE PATROL ACFT (SOME TYPE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT ACFT) AND THAT THE CTLR COMMITTED AN OPERATIONAL ERROR BY CLRING US TO 6000' INITIALLY. THE CTLR ALSO STATED THAT THE 'PATROL' ACFT MADE A TURN HE WAS NOT EXPECTING. NO EVASIVE ACTION WAS NECESSARY. FURTHER INVESTIGATION REVEALS THAT THIS 'PATROL' ACFT IS ALLOWED TO FLY IN THE O'HARE TCA AND DO AS HE PLEASES. OTHERS HAVE ALSO HAD SIMILAR INCIDENTS. WHY IS THIS ALLOWED TO CONTINUE? A CORRECTIVE ACTION WOULD SIMPLY BE TO GET THESE AIRPLANES UNDER CTL OR OUT OF THE TCA! SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 161558. CLRED FOR TKOF RWY 22L, CLB TO 5000', HDG 120. CLRED TO 6000' ON 120 HDG, THEN ISSUED HDG 090 TO AVOID TFC. TFC CALLED, 5500' AHEAD, EBND, PATROL ACFT NO VIS CONTACT. AT ABOUT 5500', I SEE SMA TYPE 12 O'CLOCK, OUR ALT, HEADED TOWARD US IN A STEEP L TURN, LESS THAN ONE MI BUT RADIUS OF ACTION THAT WILL PUT HIM TO OUR R SIDE. I ASK ATC WHO BOZO IN SMA IS. ATC SAYS ACFT IS CLASSIFIED AND I ASK FOR NEAR MISS RPT. ATC SAYS SEP WAS PROPER AND UNTIL PATROL ACFT MADE AN UNEXPECTED 180 DEG TURN. A VOICE AT ATC SAYS DON'T WORRY ABOUT SEP. ATC REFUSES TO DISCLOSE SMA'S N NUMBER OR SECRET CALL SIGN. CAPT DID NOT SEE PLANE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.