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Pilot failed to advise ATC of nonstandard rate of turn which resulted in less than standard separation from another aircraft.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 162487 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199010 |
| Day | Sat |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : hnl |
| State Reference | HI |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 3200 msl bound upper : 4000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : hnl |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 4 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
| Route In Use | departure other departure sid : sid enroute : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Flight Phase | descent other |
| Route In Use | arrival other enroute : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | government : faa |
| Function | controller : approach |
| Qualification | controller : radar |
| ASRS Report | 162487 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : required legal separation non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other spatial deviation |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 6000 vertical : 800 |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Widebody transport was climbing out of hnl on a keola 1 (radar vector) departure SID. I turned the widebody transport to approximately 30 mi south of hnl inbound to hnl airport. I noticed the widebody transport's turn rate was extremely slow as he still appeared to track the 155 degree heading flown initially off the airport. I turned the medium large transport further westbound heading 270 degree to parallel and remain south of the widebody transport's intended track. The medium large transport was descending to 3000'. The widebody transport was cleared to climb to FL310. I requested his 'best rate of turn' from the widebody transport at this point. The pilot of the widebody transport advised that 'the best we can do is a half-standard rate turn.' realizing that vectoring the aircraft for lateral sep vertical would not work. I instructed the medium large transport to maintain 4000' (he was descending out of 4400') and the widebody transport to 'stop climb, maintain present altitude (approximately 3100').' sep reduced to about 1 mi lateral and 800-900' vertical before the widebody transport was established on his westbound heading. The turn radius of the departing widebody transport exceeded 10 NM more than twice that of typical widebody transport jet departures. As with nonstandard climb or descent rates, ATC must be advised of less than standard turn rates capabilities; this advisement must also be made in time for it to be useful to the controllers. It was never anticipated that the widebody transport's turn would be as wide as it was. Not being aware of the aircraft's nonstandard performance capabilities caused a dangerous situation to occur.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: PLT FAILED TO ADVISE ATC OF NONSTANDARD RATE OF TURN WHICH RESULTED IN LESS THAN STANDARD SEPARATION FROM ANOTHER ACFT.
Narrative: WDB WAS CLBING OUT OF HNL ON A KEOLA 1 (RADAR VECTOR) DEP SID. I TURNED THE WDB TO APPROX 30 MI S OF HNL INBND TO HNL ARPT. I NOTICED THE WDB'S TURN RATE WAS EXTREMELY SLOW AS HE STILL APPEARED TO TRACK THE 155 DEG HDG FLOWN INITIALLY OFF THE ARPT. I TURNED THE MLG FURTHER WBND HDG 270 DEG TO PARALLEL AND REMAIN S OF THE WDB'S INTENDED TRACK. THE MLG WAS DSNDING TO 3000'. THE WDB WAS CLRED TO CLB TO FL310. I REQUESTED HIS 'BEST RATE OF TURN' FROM THE WDB AT THIS POINT. THE PLT OF THE WDB ADVISED THAT 'THE BEST WE CAN DO IS A HALF-STANDARD RATE TURN.' REALIZING THAT VECTORING THE ACFT FOR LATERAL SEP VERT WOULD NOT WORK. I INSTRUCTED THE MLG TO MAINTAIN 4000' (HE WAS DSNDING OUT OF 4400') AND THE WDB TO 'STOP CLB, MAINTAIN PRESENT ALT (APPROX 3100').' SEP REDUCED TO ABOUT 1 MI LATERAL AND 800-900' VERT BEFORE THE WDB WAS ESTABLISHED ON HIS WBND HDG. THE TURN RADIUS OF THE DEPARTING WDB EXCEEDED 10 NM MORE THAN TWICE THAT OF TYPICAL WDB JET DEPS. AS WITH NONSTANDARD CLB OR DSNT RATES, ATC MUST BE ADVISED OF LESS THAN STANDARD TURN RATES CAPABILITIES; THIS ADVISEMENT MUST ALSO BE MADE IN TIME FOR IT TO BE USEFUL TO THE CTLRS. IT WAS NEVER ANTICIPATED THAT THE WDB'S TURN WOULD BE AS WIDE AS IT WAS. NOT BEING AWARE OF THE ACFT'S NONSTANDARD PERFORMANCE CAPABILITIES CAUSED A DANGEROUS SITUATION TO OCCUR.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.