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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 164555 |
Time | |
Date | 199012 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : lax |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 4000 msl bound upper : 4000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 12000 flight time type : 400 |
ASRS Report | 164555 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
During a visibility approach into lax, arrival over fillmore to smo eastbound on profile descent 24/25 lax. We were not cleared for the harbor visibility approach. Instead, the controller gave us an 070 degree heading out of smo and 4000' altitude. We began descent on heading of 070 degrees. Prior to reaching 4000' controller turned us to about 120 degrees and cleared us to 2500'. Quickly after this transmission he turned us to 160 degrees (a base leg) and called traffic at our 12 O'clock. The traffic was actually at our 10:30-11 O'clock over the harbor freeway on a straight-in. Now on a base leg just outside the hollywood park racetrack, well inside the harbor freeway, the controller cleared us to land on 25L, contact tower. We were at 4000' at a point over the ground where 2000' would give us a normal approach profile and switched to tower. Bear in mind that we were expeditiously descending the whole time. We were grossly high for any attempt at a landing. Had the controller the experience or forethought to tell us he was boxing us for a close base leg, we could probably had handled the situation but be at no time warned us nor was he apparently aware of the situation he was setting up. We executed a go around and the next pattern was better, albeit steeper and tighter than normally encountered at other high density airports. The first approach was totally unacceptable and the second was only marginally acceptable. 1 of 2 things is occurring here: either we are trying to join too many aircraft into 1 place for safe operations, or our controller experience/skill level is below acceptable standards.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR BEING VECTORED FOR VISUAL APCH MAKES GO AROUND DUE HIGH, CLOSE IN POSITION.
Narrative: DURING A VIS APCH INTO LAX, ARR OVER FILLMORE TO SMO EBND ON PROFILE DSNT 24/25 LAX. WE WERE NOT CLRED FOR THE HARBOR VIS APCH. INSTEAD, THE CTLR GAVE US AN 070 DEG HDG OUT OF SMO AND 4000' ALT. WE BEGAN DSNT ON HDG OF 070 DEGS. PRIOR TO REACHING 4000' CTLR TURNED US TO ABOUT 120 DEGS AND CLRED US TO 2500'. QUICKLY AFTER THIS XMISSION HE TURNED US TO 160 DEGS (A BASE LEG) AND CALLED TFC AT OUR 12 O'CLOCK. THE TFC WAS ACTUALLY AT OUR 10:30-11 O'CLOCK OVER THE HARBOR FREEWAY ON A STRAIGHT-IN. NOW ON A BASE LEG JUST OUTSIDE THE HOLLYWOOD PARK RACETRACK, WELL INSIDE THE HARBOR FREEWAY, THE CTLR CLRED US TO LAND ON 25L, CONTACT TWR. WE WERE AT 4000' AT A POINT OVER THE GND WHERE 2000' WOULD GIVE US A NORMAL APCH PROFILE AND SWITCHED TO TWR. BEAR IN MIND THAT WE WERE EXPEDITIOUSLY DSNDING THE WHOLE TIME. WE WERE GROSSLY HIGH FOR ANY ATTEMPT AT A LNDG. HAD THE CTLR THE EXPERIENCE OR FORETHOUGHT TO TELL US HE WAS BOXING US FOR A CLOSE BASE LEG, WE COULD PROBABLY HAD HANDLED THE SITUATION BUT BE AT NO TIME WARNED US NOR WAS HE APPARENTLY AWARE OF THE SITUATION HE WAS SETTING UP. WE EXECUTED A GAR AND THE NEXT PATTERN WAS BETTER, ALBEIT STEEPER AND TIGHTER THAN NORMALLY ENCOUNTERED AT OTHER HIGH DENSITY ARPTS. THE FIRST APCH WAS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE AND THE SECOND WAS ONLY MARGINALLY ACCEPTABLE. 1 OF 2 THINGS IS OCCURRING HERE: EITHER WE ARE TRYING TO JOIN TOO MANY ACFT INTO 1 PLACE FOR SAFE OPS, OR OUR CTLR EXPERIENCE/SKILL LEVEL IS BELOW ACCEPTABLE STANDARDS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.