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Attributes | |
ACN | 168420 |
Time | |
Date | 199102 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : zdv airport : ege |
State Reference | CO |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 14500 msl bound upper : 15300 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zdv |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach landing : missed approach |
Route In Use | approach : circling |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 15000 flight time type : 100 |
ASRS Report | 168420 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 220 flight time total : 6500 flight time type : 400 |
ASRS Report | 168419 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot inflight encounter : weather non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | other |
Consequence | faa : investigated |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
While making the approach to eagle county airport and level at 9140' (the MDA) approaching the missed approach point (1.5 DME), the runway came in sight and I began a descent to make a visibility approach to runway 7, in visibility conditions. Approximately 3 mi further into the approach, at about 2000' AGL, a snowshower caused me to lose visibility contact with the ground and I called out a missed approach and executed the procedure called for by our company special procedure pages 10-6 and 10-8. While climbing and tracking on the published procedure, the first officer called ZDV to advise them of our missed approach. After initial contact with ZDV, they called to verify the missed approach to jessie. This caused much confusion in our cockpit, in that we thought in fact we were en route to jessie as prescribed in our company procedure page 10-8. After several communications between the first officer, ZDV and myself in order to get an understanding as to the proper missed approach procedure, ATC asked us for our altitude at which time I realized that the missed approach altitude was not set in the flight director and we in fact were 1000' above the missed approach point altitude. I initiated an immediate descent to 14500' and continued on to jessie. Later a conversation with company ATC people and ZDV, a misunderstanding on just what is to happen on a missed approach after the missed approach point seemed to exist. Supplemental information from acn 168419: confusion was created in the cockpit when ZDV was contacted and we were questioned about our position in relation to the published missed approach which is not the same as the 'FMC created' missed approach course. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following: the first officer stated that the company published missed approach is a 'FMC created missed approach' through cottonwood pass. It is used whenever the aircraft is below the MDA and a missed approach is necessary. The published NOAA missed approach is used whenever the aircraft is at or above the MDA. The FMC created missed approach calls for a left turnout through cottonwood pass toward ase, and enters into ase approach control airspace. Apparently ZDV had no knowledge of the FMC procedure. FAA threat made due to the altitude bust, but flight crew believes their company took care of the misunderstanding. The crew made 2 missed approachs--the first one a FMC procedure, the second one the published procedure. The aircraft eventually went to den until WX improved. Discussed this with ZDV. Center specialist stated there are no special missed approach procedures as stipulated by the flight crew. However, they do have a company generated departure procedure that ATC has knowledge of. ZDV cannot see below 11000' in this area. Facility considers this a non event. No other aircraft was involved with altitude bust. Discussions have taken place between the company and ZDV.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: HEADING TRACK POSITION DEVIATION OCCURS DURING MISSED APCH.
Narrative: WHILE MAKING THE APCH TO EAGLE COUNTY ARPT AND LEVEL AT 9140' (THE MDA) APCHING THE MISSED APCH POINT (1.5 DME), THE RWY CAME IN SIGHT AND I BEGAN A DSNT TO MAKE A VIS APCH TO RWY 7, IN VIS CONDITIONS. APPROX 3 MI FURTHER INTO THE APCH, AT ABOUT 2000' AGL, A SNOWSHOWER CAUSED ME TO LOSE VIS CONTACT WITH THE GND AND I CALLED OUT A MISSED APCH AND EXECUTED THE PROC CALLED FOR BY OUR COMPANY SPECIAL PROC PAGES 10-6 AND 10-8. WHILE CLBING AND TRACKING ON THE PUBLISHED PROC, THE F/O CALLED ZDV TO ADVISE THEM OF OUR MISSED APCH. AFTER INITIAL CONTACT WITH ZDV, THEY CALLED TO VERIFY THE MISSED APCH TO JESSIE. THIS CAUSED MUCH CONFUSION IN OUR COCKPIT, IN THAT WE THOUGHT IN FACT WE WERE ENRTE TO JESSIE AS PRESCRIBED IN OUR COMPANY PROC PAGE 10-8. AFTER SEVERAL COMS BTWN THE F/O, ZDV AND MYSELF IN ORDER TO GET AN UNDERSTANDING AS TO THE PROPER MISSED APCH PROC, ATC ASKED US FOR OUR ALT AT WHICH TIME I REALIZED THAT THE MISSED APCH ALT WAS NOT SET IN THE FLT DIRECTOR AND WE IN FACT WERE 1000' ABOVE THE MISSED APCH POINT ALT. I INITIATED AN IMMEDIATE DSNT TO 14500' AND CONTINUED ON TO JESSIE. LATER A CONVERSATION WITH COMPANY ATC PEOPLE AND ZDV, A MISUNDERSTANDING ON JUST WHAT IS TO HAPPEN ON A MISSED APCH AFTER THE MISSED APCH POINT SEEMED TO EXIST. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 168419: CONFUSION WAS CREATED IN THE COCKPIT WHEN ZDV WAS CONTACTED AND WE WERE QUESTIONED ABOUT OUR POS IN RELATION TO THE PUBLISHED MISSED APCH WHICH IS NOT THE SAME AS THE 'FMC CREATED' MISSED APCH COURSE. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING: THE F/O STATED THAT THE COMPANY PUBLISHED MISSED APCH IS A 'FMC CREATED MISSED APCH' THROUGH COTTONWOOD PASS. IT IS USED WHENEVER THE ACFT IS BELOW THE MDA AND A MISSED APCH IS NECESSARY. THE PUBLISHED NOAA MISSED APCH IS USED WHENEVER THE ACFT IS AT OR ABOVE THE MDA. THE FMC CREATED MISSED APCH CALLS FOR A LEFT TURNOUT THROUGH COTTONWOOD PASS TOWARD ASE, AND ENTERS INTO ASE APCH CTL AIRSPACE. APPARENTLY ZDV HAD NO KNOWLEDGE OF THE FMC PROC. FAA THREAT MADE DUE TO THE ALT BUST, BUT FLT CREW BELIEVES THEIR COMPANY TOOK CARE OF THE MISUNDERSTANDING. THE CREW MADE 2 MISSED APCHS--THE FIRST ONE A FMC PROC, THE SECOND ONE THE PUBLISHED PROC. THE ACFT EVENTUALLY WENT TO DEN UNTIL WX IMPROVED. DISCUSSED THIS WITH ZDV. CENTER SPECIALIST STATED THERE ARE NO SPECIAL MISSED APCH PROCS AS STIPULATED BY THE FLT CREW. HOWEVER, THEY DO HAVE A COMPANY GENERATED DEP PROC THAT ATC HAS KNOWLEDGE OF. ZDV CANNOT SEE BELOW 11000' IN THIS AREA. FAC CONSIDERS THIS A NON EVENT. NO OTHER ACFT WAS INVOLVED WITH ALT BUST. DISCUSSIONS HAVE TAKEN PLACE BETWEEN THE COMPANY AND ZDV.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.