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Cleared to hold 30 mi DME when headed for cvg. Flight crew held off the cvg VOR. Controller later advised he had meant for them to hold 30 DME off of iiu the VOR behind them.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 170067 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199102 |
| Day | Thu |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : cvg |
| State Reference | OH |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 6000 msl bound upper : 6000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | Mixed |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : cvg tracon : sdf |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | other |
| Route In Use | enroute airway : v5 |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 8500 flight time type : 75 |
| ASRS Report | 170067 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other spatial deviation |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Flight sdf-cvg en route from iiu to cvg on V5 approximately midway between the 2 vors we were given clearance to hold at the '30 DME fix, left hand turns.' we entered holding on the cvg 217 right/30 DME fix and reported entering and altitude and time. After a few mins in the holding pattern, we were given a heading for vectors to cvg. Later ATC told us that his original clearance should have been to hold off the iiu VOR/30 DME fix, ie, we were approximately 8 NM northeast of where we should have been. The controller said that there was no problem with what we did and that he had cleared it with cbg approach control. He added that he had given us an unclr holding clearance. Analysis crew: misinterp of ATC holding instructions and our failure to clarify his real instructions. ATC, failure to give a clear, specific description of the intended holding pattern.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CLEARED TO HOLD 30 MI DME WHEN HEADED FOR CVG. FLT CREW HELD OFF THE CVG VOR. CTLR LATER ADVISED HE HAD MEANT FOR THEM TO HOLD 30 DME OFF OF IIU THE VOR BEHIND THEM.
Narrative: FLT SDF-CVG ENRTE FROM IIU TO CVG ON V5 APPROX MIDWAY BTWN THE 2 VORS WE WERE GIVEN CLRNC TO HOLD AT THE '30 DME FIX, L HAND TURNS.' WE ENTERED HOLDING ON THE CVG 217 R/30 DME FIX AND RPTED ENTERING AND ALT AND TIME. AFTER A FEW MINS IN THE HOLDING PATTERN, WE WERE GIVEN A HDG FOR VECTORS TO CVG. LATER ATC TOLD US THAT HIS ORIGINAL CLRNC SHOULD HAVE BEEN TO HOLD OFF THE IIU VOR/30 DME FIX, IE, WE WERE APPROX 8 NM NE OF WHERE WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN. THE CTLR SAID THAT THERE WAS NO PROB WITH WHAT WE DID AND THAT HE HAD CLRED IT WITH CBG APCH CTL. HE ADDED THAT HE HAD GIVEN US AN UNCLR HOLDING CLRNC. ANALYSIS CREW: MISINTERP OF ATC HOLDING INSTRUCTIONS AND OUR FAILURE TO CLARIFY HIS REAL INSTRUCTIONS. ATC, FAILURE TO GIVE A CLR, SPECIFIC DESCRIPTION OF THE INTENDED HOLDING PATTERN.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.