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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 173595 |
Time | |
Date | 199103 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : bur |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 3000 msl bound upper : 5000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Marginal |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : bur |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : initial |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : commercial pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 6800 flight time type : 780 |
ASRS Report | 173595 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 16000 flight time type : 600 |
ASRS Report | 173063 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : took evasive action |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
Departing bur, runway 15, initial takeoff clearance was to turn right 210 degrees, climb and maintain 13000'. On departure, climbing through about 2000', departure instructed us to level off at 3000'. We did. Small transport traffic was pointed out at 10 O'clock, 4000', which we reported in sight. Asked if we could maintain a visibility on him in the climb. We responded, 'negative,' due to flying in and out of clouds. Shortly thereafter, given right turn 340 degrees. Established in turn, given immediate climb to 13000', right turn 340 degrees. Began climb and greatly increased rate of turn (40 degree bank). 5-10 seconds later, gave second order for immediate climb to 13000' right to 360 degrees. There was panic in the controller's voice, so the captain initiated maximum performance climb, fire wall throttles and pulled 2+ G's on aircraft. Questioned controller as to where traffic was. No reply. Controller gave us phone # on request. Both captain and I thought we had a near miss. We were not issued traffic, but thought so due to alarm and panic in controller's voice. Captain briefed passenger and F/a's as to reason for maneuver. After landing and talking to ATC supervisor, bur tower, determined there was probably no near miss, but controller had us too close to arrs on runway 8. Coordination between departure and bur tower could have prevented this. If our takeoff clearance was delayed 1 min, the initial 3000' level off would have been unnecessary. With all the light aircraft around vny, a 3000' level off is a bad idea to start. Later, when the controller gave us an immediate climb, she should have given us explicit instructions as to where traffic was. The aggressive pullup was probably unnecessary, but since we had no traffic information, we had no choice. Bur is probably not a good choice for a training tower, with the amount of traffic in the area.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR ON DEP VECTORED THROUGH ILS AT OM ALT. GIVEN IMMEDIATE CLIMB INSTRUCTIONS AND VECTOR.
Narrative: DEPARTING BUR, RWY 15, INITIAL TKOF CLRNC WAS TO TURN RIGHT 210 DEGS, CLB AND MAINTAIN 13000'. ON DEP, CLBING THROUGH ABOUT 2000', DEP INSTRUCTED US TO LEVEL OFF AT 3000'. WE DID. SMT TFC WAS POINTED OUT AT 10 O'CLOCK, 4000', WHICH WE RPTED IN SIGHT. ASKED IF WE COULD MAINTAIN A VIS ON HIM IN THE CLB. WE RESPONDED, 'NEGATIVE,' DUE TO FLYING IN AND OUT OF CLOUDS. SHORTLY THEREAFTER, GIVEN RIGHT TURN 340 DEGS. ESTABLISHED IN TURN, GIVEN IMMEDIATE CLB TO 13000', RIGHT TURN 340 DEGS. BEGAN CLB AND GREATLY INCREASED RATE OF TURN (40 DEG BANK). 5-10 SECS LATER, GAVE SECOND ORDER FOR IMMEDIATE CLB TO 13000' RIGHT TO 360 DEGS. THERE WAS PANIC IN THE CTLR'S VOICE, SO THE CAPT INITIATED MAX PERFORMANCE CLB, FIRE WALL THROTTLES AND PULLED 2+ G'S ON ACFT. QUESTIONED CTLR AS TO WHERE TFC WAS. NO REPLY. CTLR GAVE US PHONE # ON REQUEST. BOTH CAPT AND I THOUGHT WE HAD A NEAR MISS. WE WERE NOT ISSUED TFC, BUT THOUGHT SO DUE TO ALARM AND PANIC IN CTLR'S VOICE. CAPT BRIEFED PAX AND F/A'S AS TO REASON FOR MANEUVER. AFTER LNDG AND TALKING TO ATC SUPVR, BUR TWR, DETERMINED THERE WAS PROBABLY NO NEAR MISS, BUT CTLR HAD US TOO CLOSE TO ARRS ON RWY 8. COORD BTWN DEP AND BUR TWR COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS. IF OUR TKOF CLRNC WAS DELAYED 1 MIN, THE INITIAL 3000' LEVEL OFF WOULD HAVE BEEN UNNECESSARY. WITH ALL THE LIGHT ACFT AROUND VNY, A 3000' LEVEL OFF IS A BAD IDEA TO START. LATER, WHEN THE CTLR GAVE US AN IMMEDIATE CLB, SHE SHOULD HAVE GIVEN US EXPLICIT INSTRUCTIONS AS TO WHERE TFC WAS. THE AGGRESSIVE PULLUP WAS PROBABLY UNNECESSARY, BUT SINCE WE HAD NO TFC INFO, WE HAD NO CHOICE. BUR IS PROBABLY NOT A GOOD CHOICE FOR A TRNING TWR, WITH THE AMOUNT OF TFC IN THE AREA.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.