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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 176475 |
Time | |
Date | 199104 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : ifxd airport : stl |
State Reference | MO |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 4200 msl bound upper : 4500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : stl |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 300 flight time total : 15000 |
ASRS Report | 176475 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
30L lda stl this approach is based on parallel cft being able to see and 'key' on one another for vertical nd lateral spacing. My aircraft was being vectored for the 30L lda and was being flown by the first officer. We were given and acknowledged a 4500' restriction and then given traffic to look for at 2-3 O'clock at 3500'. This is normal but difficult to do as I, the captain, was trying to look past the first officer and down and behind my aircraft. This put an additional burden on the first officer who is trying to fly as well as look for aircraft that I can't possibly see from my position in the cockpit. It should also be noted that we have to find this aircraft before we can get further descent/approach clearance. The net result if off course, the first officer failed to stop his descent at 4500' (no magic capture altitude). The same old story you and I have heard over and over, everybody outside and no one minding the store. I was first to notice. The excursion was limited to 300'. I write because I find it interesting that it takes so little for all the 'tumblers' to fall into place. I have operated in and out of lambert for the last 25 yrs and made that approach hundreds of times but for some reason the placing of me handling the radios and trying to look out the wrong side of the aircraft led to an excursion. In retrospect, I would have turned things around and flown the aircraft myself and had the first officer look for traffic that is on his side and was in reality impossible for me to see. Before I go I would like to offer an old line pilots view. The operation at lambert is going to kill someone. The runway spacing is a travesty. Several or more yrs ago, it was recommended the st louis airport be moved and it should have been so. It never ceases to amaze me how the federal government can talk safety yet rationalize and allow an unsafe operation to continue for yrs. They do it all the time.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ALT OVERSHOT ON DESCENT DISTR LOOKING FOR REPORTED TRAFFIC.
Narrative: 30L LDA STL THIS APCH IS BASED ON PARALLEL CFT BEING ABLE TO SEE AND 'KEY' ON ONE ANOTHER FOR VERT ND LATERAL SPACING. MY ACFT WAS BEING VECTORED FOR THE 30L LDA AND WAS BEING FLOWN BY THE F/O. WE WERE GIVEN AND ACKNOWLEDGED A 4500' RESTRICTION AND THEN GIVEN TFC TO LOOK FOR AT 2-3 O'CLOCK AT 3500'. THIS IS NORMAL BUT DIFFICULT TO DO AS I, THE CAPT, WAS TRYING TO LOOK PAST THE F/O AND DOWN AND BEHIND MY ACFT. THIS PUT AN ADDITIONAL BURDEN ON THE F/O WHO IS TRYING TO FLY AS WELL AS LOOK FOR ACFT THAT I CAN'T POSSIBLY SEE FROM MY POS IN THE COCKPIT. IT SHOULD ALSO BE NOTED THAT WE HAVE TO FIND THIS ACFT BEFORE WE CAN GET FURTHER DSNT/APCH CLRNC. THE NET RESULT IF OFF COURSE, THE F/O FAILED TO STOP HIS DSNT AT 4500' (NO MAGIC CAPTURE ALT). THE SAME OLD STORY YOU AND I HAVE HEARD OVER AND OVER, EVERYBODY OUTSIDE AND NO ONE MINDING THE STORE. I WAS FIRST TO NOTICE. THE EXCURSION WAS LIMITED TO 300'. I WRITE BECAUSE I FIND IT INTERESTING THAT IT TAKES SO LITTLE FOR ALL THE 'TUMBLERS' TO FALL INTO PLACE. I HAVE OPERATED IN AND OUT OF LAMBERT FOR THE LAST 25 YRS AND MADE THAT APCH HUNDREDS OF TIMES BUT FOR SOME REASON THE PLACING OF ME HANDLING THE RADIOS AND TRYING TO LOOK OUT THE WRONG SIDE OF THE ACFT LED TO AN EXCURSION. IN RETROSPECT, I WOULD HAVE TURNED THINGS AROUND AND FLOWN THE ACFT MYSELF AND HAD THE F/O LOOK FOR TFC THAT IS ON HIS SIDE AND WAS IN REALITY IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO SEE. BEFORE I GO I WOULD LIKE TO OFFER AN OLD LINE PLTS VIEW. THE OPERATION AT LAMBERT IS GOING TO KILL SOMEONE. THE RWY SPACING IS A TRAVESTY. SEVERAL OR MORE YRS AGO, IT WAS RECOMMENDED THE ST LOUIS ARPT BE MOVED AND IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SO. IT NEVER CEASES TO AMAZE ME HOW THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN TALK SAFETY YET RATIONALIZE AND ALLOW AN UNSAFE OPERATION TO CONTINUE FOR YRS. THEY DO IT ALL THE TIME.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.