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Air carrier X had less than standard separation from air carrier Y. Same altitude assigned in holding pattern. System error.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 184723 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199107 |
| Day | Thu |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : sax |
| State Reference | NJ |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 7000 msl bound upper : 8000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | IMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zbw |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 4 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | descent other other |
| Route In Use | arrival other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 4 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | other |
| Route In Use | arrival other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : second officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time type : 200 |
| ASRS Report | 184723 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 30000 flight time type : 3000 |
| ASRS Report | 184883 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : published procedure non adherence : required legal separation |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
| Consequence | faa : investigated |
| Miss Distance | vertical : 600 |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Narrative:
Radar was OTS at ewr backing up traffic at ewr. Boston center placed air carrier X in holding pattern. Air carrier X was cleared to hold at shaff intersection at 8000 ft. Air carrier Y similar number was on frequency. We were about 20 mi from shaff when boston center (128.67) cleared us to 7000 ft. The first officer read it back with no response. The first officer reported out of 8000 ft for 7000 ft. No response from ATC. (This sector was very busy at this time). As we passed through 7600 ft, air carrier Y questioned our altitude directly to us. We said we were out of 8000 ft for 7000 ft. His response was he was at 7000 ft at shaff. ATC then picked up on the problem and reassigned 8000 ft to us. We climbed to 8000 ft. Approximately 1 min later we saw air carrier Y in his hold over shaff. When we were first assigned 7000 ft we were IMC.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR X HAD LTSS FROM ACR Y. SAME ALT ASSIGNED IN HOLDING PATTERN. SYS ERROR.
Narrative: RADAR WAS OTS AT EWR BACKING UP TFC AT EWR. BOSTON CENTER PLACED ACR X IN HOLDING PATTERN. ACR X WAS CLRED TO HOLD AT SHAFF INTXN AT 8000 FT. ACR Y SIMILAR NUMBER WAS ON FREQ. WE WERE ABOUT 20 MI FROM SHAFF WHEN BOSTON CENTER (128.67) CLRED US TO 7000 FT. THE FO READ IT BACK WITH NO RESPONSE. THE FO RPTED OUT OF 8000 FT FOR 7000 FT. NO RESPONSE FROM ATC. (THIS SECTOR WAS VERY BUSY AT THIS TIME). AS WE PASSED THROUGH 7600 FT, ACR Y QUESTIONED OUR ALT DIRECTLY TO US. WE SAID WE WERE OUT OF 8000 FT FOR 7000 FT. HIS RESPONSE WAS HE WAS AT 7000 FT AT SHAFF. ATC THEN PICKED UP ON THE PROBLEM AND REASSIGNED 8000 FT TO US. WE CLBED TO 8000 FT. APPROX 1 MIN LATER WE SAW ACR Y IN HIS HOLD OVER SHAFF. WHEN WE WERE FIRST ASSIGNED 7000 FT WE WERE IMC.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.