37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 185856 |
Time | |
Date | 199108 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2300 msl bound upper : 2300 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Dusk |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other |
Route In Use | approach : visual |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : commercial pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 14000 flight time type : 2100 |
ASRS Report | 185856 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time type : 180 |
Events | |
Anomaly | incursion : runway inflight encounter : weather non adherence : clearance other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
Though my first officer had 9 yrs with the company his total copilot experience was 180 hours and 3 line lndgs, due to international flyings as a first officer. First officer copied the ATIS, visual 24R, 25R (neglecting to note that the ILS for 25R was reported not on as visibility was 10 mi) coming from the north we expected 24R and were so cleared. Though when briefing agreed to request 25R due to proximity to gates. Tuned and idented ILS 24R. Past smo cleared for rapid descent to 2500 ft. Downsun visibility was good, field was in sight. Directed to anticipate 25R. Retuned ILS 109.9 but due to workload did not identify. Extended centerline ILS 25R. Vectored 160 degree cleared harbor visual 25R. On autoflt intercepted localizer/centerline at 90 degrees of course, overshot working on correcting back. GS appeared ok. In midst of speed control checklist I heard comment of wake turbulence from large transport on 25R. We were then cleared 25L. Replied 'unable, in the soup, IFR' (due to the low angle sun glare on otherwise invisible moisture layer in lax basin). Just as I completed that statement still not aligned properly with 25R, the field came into view (at this moment we were probably centered between the runways). We started perhaps a 20 degree cut to 25L. When clearing the turn I saw a widebody transport above behind us. I temporarily took the wheel. Sharply cut to the right. Though we both thought we heard the modified clearance to 25L, upon seeing the widebody transport we were highly suspicious that we'd misheard the change. In my rush when switching from 24R to 25R I failed to note that the left/right 25 runways have the same frequency but different identifiers. It was a good trap, it caught me! Low experience high workload were instrumental in our not 'bending it around' to intercept 25R (as it was in the process of disappearing). From their vantage point, ATC does not get the sun reflection glare angle an aircraft experiences, therefore cannot directly detect the rapid loss of visibility. Consequently, in late afternoon the ATIS may be quite misleading. Later in a discussion with ATC I found that the controllers, seeing our excursion from 25R, felt it more expedient to clear us for 25L and move the other aircraft to 25R. From above and behind the widebody transport crew were exercising excellent eyeball technique and patiently watched our gyrations in their airspace. Thoughts: should the 'sunglare' phenomenon be noted on the 10-7 airport information pages. Likewise perhaps note the similar frequency for the left and right runways on the 10-7 page. Assign new pilots to a min of 1 (preferably 2 months) of a line of domestic flying (training line) to build experience. The 180 hours and 3 lndgs this pilot was able to get isn't good.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FLC OF LGT ACFT CLRED RWY 25R AT LAX WHEN TURNING TO INTERCEPT, OVERSHOT RWY ALIGNMENT.
Narrative: THOUGH MY FO HAD 9 YRS WITH THE COMPANY HIS TOTAL COPLT EXPERIENCE WAS 180 HRS AND 3 LINE LNDGS, DUE TO INTL FLYINGS AS A FO. FO COPIED THE ATIS, VISUAL 24R, 25R (NEGLECTING TO NOTE THAT THE ILS FOR 25R WAS RPTED NOT ON AS VISIBILITY WAS 10 MI) COMING FROM THE N WE EXPECTED 24R AND WERE SO CLRED. THOUGH WHEN BRIEFING AGREED TO REQUEST 25R DUE TO PROX TO GATES. TUNED AND IDENTED ILS 24R. PAST SMO CLRED FOR RAPID DSCNT TO 2500 FT. DOWNSUN VISIBILITY WAS GOOD, FIELD WAS IN SIGHT. DIRECTED TO ANTICIPATE 25R. RETUNED ILS 109.9 BUT DUE TO WORKLOAD DID NOT IDENT. EXTENDED CENTERLINE ILS 25R. VECTORED 160 DEG CLRED HARBOR VISUAL 25R. ON AUTOFLT INTERCEPTED LOC/CENTERLINE AT 90 DEGS OF COURSE, OVERSHOT WORKING ON CORRECTING BACK. GS APPEARED OK. IN MIDST OF SPD CTL CHKLIST I HEARD COMMENT OF WAKE TURB FROM LGT ON 25R. WE WERE THEN CLRED 25L. REPLIED 'UNABLE, IN THE SOUP, IFR' (DUE TO THE LOW ANGLE SUN GLARE ON OTHERWISE INVISIBLE MOISTURE LAYER IN LAX BASIN). JUST AS I COMPLETED THAT STATEMENT STILL NOT ALIGNED PROPERLY WITH 25R, THE FIELD CAME INTO VIEW (AT THIS MOMENT WE WERE PROBABLY CENTERED BTWN THE RWYS). WE STARTED PERHAPS A 20 DEG CUT TO 25L. WHEN CLRING THE TURN I SAW A WDB ABOVE BEHIND US. I TEMPORARILY TOOK THE WHEEL. SHARPLY CUT TO THE R. THOUGH WE BOTH THOUGHT WE HEARD THE MODIFIED CLRNC TO 25L, UPON SEEING THE WDB WE WERE HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS THAT WE'D MISHEARD THE CHANGE. IN MY RUSH WHEN SWITCHING FROM 24R TO 25R I FAILED TO NOTE THAT THE L/R 25 RWYS HAVE THE SAME FREQ BUT DIFFERENT IDENTIFIERS. IT WAS A GOOD TRAP, IT CAUGHT ME! LOW EXPERIENCE HIGH WORKLOAD WERE INSTRUMENTAL IN OUR NOT 'BENDING IT AROUND' TO INTERCEPT 25R (AS IT WAS IN THE PROCESS OF DISAPPEARING). FROM THEIR VANTAGE POINT, ATC DOES NOT GET THE SUN REFLECTION GLARE ANGLE AN ACFT EXPERIENCES, THEREFORE CANNOT DIRECTLY DETECT THE RAPID LOSS OF VISIBILITY. CONSEQUENTLY, IN LATE AFTERNOON THE ATIS MAY BE QUITE MISLEADING. LATER IN A DISCUSSION WITH ATC I FOUND THAT THE CTLRS, SEEING OUR EXCURSION FROM 25R, FELT IT MORE EXPEDIENT TO CLR US FOR 25L AND MOVE THE OTHER ACFT TO 25R. FROM ABOVE AND BEHIND THE WDB CREW WERE EXERCISING EXCELLENT EYEBALL TECHNIQUE AND PATIENTLY WATCHED OUR GYRATIONS IN THEIR AIRSPACE. THOUGHTS: SHOULD THE 'SUNGLARE' PHENOMENON BE NOTED ON THE 10-7 ARPT INFO PAGES. LIKEWISE PERHAPS NOTE THE SIMILAR FREQ FOR THE L AND R RWYS ON THE 10-7 PAGE. ASSIGN NEW PLTS TO A MIN OF 1 (PREFERABLY 2 MONTHS) OF A LINE OF DOMESTIC FLYING (TRAINING LINE) TO BUILD EXPERIENCE. THE 180 HRS AND 3 LNDGS THIS PLT WAS ABLE TO GET ISN'T GOOD.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.