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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 186388 |
Time | |
Date | 199108 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 0001 To 0600 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : dfw |
State Reference | TX |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2000 msl bound upper : 4000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : dfw |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other landing : missed approach |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 9000 flight time type : 350 |
ASRS Report | 186388 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Deviation Pilot Deviation |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
We were approaching dfw at XX00 am after an all night flight from the west coast. The first officer was flying and WX was 200 overcast and 32 mi with rain. Having flown into dfw for yrs I knew the runway assignment might come late so I inquired early so we could brief and be fully prepared. This was about 35 mi out and above 1000 ft. 18R was assigned and thoroughly briefed. We were turned over to the final controller about 15 mi out and sure enough we were told our runway was now 17L. Looking back I realize I should have refused the change. (Made for convenience only). The first officer immediately briefed 17L. I reprogrammed the FM and crosschecked our new mins which was paramount on my mind. Our ILS frequencys were crosschecked and we were cleared for the intercept. We switched from map to arc mode on our navigation display and saw that we had gone through the final. Again this was not uncommon at dfw. I asked approach to confirm. He said no, we were fine, I then asked which runway he showed us cleared for (this has also been confused by approach in the past) and he said 17L. I realized then the mistake was ours. Both the first officer and myself were positive the ILS frequency had been changed and confirmed, but we were both wrong. The controller asked if we wanted 18R but I felt that except for the frequency we were prepared for 17L so we proceeded. I asked and was approved for a lower altitude because we were pushing the marker. Feeling we were close to the localizer and in close we descended rapidly. We past our cleared altitude, were inside the marker now and the localizer hadn't moved so I told the first officer to go around. This problem is frustrating because last min runway changes happen frequently and are dangerous. Our mistakes would have been minimized or non existent if no runway changes were issued below 10000 ft when the field in IFR (especially at xxoo am) unless operationally required or unless the crew requests it. I will seek this policy change through my company.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CLRNC AMENDED ON APCH IN IMC CONDITIONS CREATE AN OVERLOAD SITUATION FOR FLC AND AFTER A HDG TRACK DEV THEY MAKE A MAP.
Narrative: WE WERE APCHING DFW AT XX00 AM AFTER AN ALL NIGHT FLT FROM THE W COAST. THE FO WAS FLYING AND WX WAS 200 OVCST AND 32 MI WITH RAIN. HAVING FLOWN INTO DFW FOR YRS I KNEW THE RWY ASSIGNMENT MIGHT COME LATE SO I INQUIRED EARLY SO WE COULD BRIEF AND BE FULLY PREPARED. THIS WAS ABOUT 35 MI OUT AND ABOVE 1000 FT. 18R WAS ASSIGNED AND THOROUGHLY BRIEFED. WE WERE TURNED OVER TO THE FINAL CTLR ABOUT 15 MI OUT AND SURE ENOUGH WE WERE TOLD OUR RWY WAS NOW 17L. LOOKING BACK I REALIZE I SHOULD HAVE REFUSED THE CHANGE. (MADE FOR CONVENIENCE ONLY). THE FO IMMEDIATELY BRIEFED 17L. I REPROGRAMMED THE FM AND XCHKED OUR NEW MINS WHICH WAS PARAMOUNT ON MY MIND. OUR ILS FREQS WERE XCHKED AND WE WERE CLRED FOR THE INTERCEPT. WE SWITCHED FROM MAP TO ARC MODE ON OUR NAV DISPLAY AND SAW THAT WE HAD GONE THROUGH THE FINAL. AGAIN THIS WAS NOT UNCOMMON AT DFW. I ASKED APCH TO CONFIRM. HE SAID NO, WE WERE FINE, I THEN ASKED WHICH RWY HE SHOWED US CLRED FOR (THIS HAS ALSO BEEN CONFUSED BY APCH IN THE PAST) AND HE SAID 17L. I REALIZED THEN THE MISTAKE WAS OURS. BOTH THE FO AND MYSELF WERE POSITIVE THE ILS FREQ HAD BEEN CHANGED AND CONFIRMED, BUT WE WERE BOTH WRONG. THE CTLR ASKED IF WE WANTED 18R BUT I FELT THAT EXCEPT FOR THE FREQ WE WERE PREPARED FOR 17L SO WE PROCEEDED. I ASKED AND WAS APPROVED FOR A LOWER ALT BECAUSE WE WERE PUSHING THE MARKER. FEELING WE WERE CLOSE TO THE LOC AND IN CLOSE WE DSNDED RAPIDLY. WE PAST OUR CLRED ALT, WERE INSIDE THE MARKER NOW AND THE LOC HADN'T MOVED SO I TOLD THE FO TO GAR. THIS PROBLEM IS FRUSTRATING BECAUSE LAST MIN RWY CHANGES HAPPEN FREQUENTLY AND ARE DANGEROUS. OUR MISTAKES WOULD HAVE BEEN MINIMIZED OR NON EXISTENT IF NO RWY CHANGES WERE ISSUED BELOW 10000 FT WHEN THE FIELD IN IFR (ESPECIALLY AT XXOO AM) UNLESS OPERATIONALLY REQUIRED OR UNLESS THE CREW REQUESTS IT. I WILL SEEK THIS POLICY CHANGE THROUGH MY COMPANY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.