37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 190305 |
Time | |
Date | 199109 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : jax |
State Reference | FL |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 27000 msl bound upper : 28000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zjx |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Route In Use | enroute airway : zjx |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | other |
Make Model Name | Fighter |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 270 flight time total : 5000 flight time type : 2000 |
ASRS Report | 190305 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude conflict : nmac conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : clearance non adherence : required legal separation |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course flight crew : took evasive action flight crew : declared emergency |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Miss Distance | vertical : 400 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
At 27000 on ar-11, TCASII gave a TA, 12 O'clock at 900 ft above our altitude and descending. TCASII then issued an RA 'climb, crossing climb'. TCASII showed traffic at 600 ft above our altitude and descending. I immediately disconnected the autoplt and flew the TCASII advisory information on the vertical speed indicator (indicating +2300 FPM or better to clear conflict). Center then picked up our altitude deviation and asked what the problem was. I believe that the 2 fgts flying in formation dipped below 28000 ft as assigned. TCASII then picked up descent rate and the rest is as explained. In this situation, TCASII was, in my opinion, setting us up for a potential midair. It would've been safer to stay at 27000 ft, but as company procedures dictate, one must fly according to the advisory. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: on callback reporter stated that had the controller given a TA, he would not have followed the commands of his TCASII RA. Reporter is or was a military pilot also and had flown these fgt missions in formation. He stated that the wingman usually 'horses around' in altitude, varying about 200 ft up and down, just to relax and break the level of concentration or muscle tension. The controller was heard to tell the flight leader to have his wingman squawk 'standby.' this inferred that, because the wingman forgot to squawk standby, the usual wingman mode, that it appeared to the air carrier TCASII that the flight of 2 had left FL280, instead of 1 having an excursion. This placed the air carrier in jeopardy now because the flight was actually at FL280, not descending to air carrier's altitude. The TCASII did not know that, basing information on a transponder mode that wasn't on standby. When asked why a TA wasn't given, controller did not answer. Reporter assumed that a supervisor was now on the scene and controller hesitated to make any statements reference event. Reporter wants this information disseminated so that military fgts may be reminded of the importance of 'standby' on transponder or not 'horsing' around in altdevs.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: POTENTIAL CONFLICT OCCURS BTWN ACR LGT AND 2 MIL FGTS WHEN WINGMAN PIC OF FGT FORMATION HAS ALTDEV ALT EXCURSION AND ACR TCASII RA INDUCES ACR PF TO ALSO GO THROUGH AN ALTDEV IN AN EVASIVE ACTION CLB. POSSIBLE NMAC.
Narrative: AT 27000 ON AR-11, TCASII GAVE A TA, 12 O'CLOCK AT 900 FT ABOVE OUR ALT AND DSNDING. TCASII THEN ISSUED AN RA 'CLB, XING CLB'. TCASII SHOWED TFC AT 600 FT ABOVE OUR ALT AND DSNDING. I IMMEDIATELY DISCONNECTED THE AUTOPLT AND FLEW THE TCASII ADVISORY INFO ON THE VERT SPD INDICATOR (INDICATING +2300 FPM OR BETTER TO CLR CONFLICT). CENTER THEN PICKED UP OUR ALTDEV AND ASKED WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS. I BELIEVE THAT THE 2 FGTS FLYING IN FORMATION DIPPED BELOW 28000 FT AS ASSIGNED. TCASII THEN PICKED UP DSCNT RATE AND THE REST IS AS EXPLAINED. IN THIS SITUATION, TCASII WAS, IN MY OPINION, SETTING US UP FOR A POTENTIAL MIDAIR. IT WOULD'VE BEEN SAFER TO STAY AT 27000 FT, BUT AS COMPANY PROCS DICTATE, ONE MUST FLY ACCORDING TO THE ADVISORY. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: ON CALLBACK RPTR STATED THAT HAD THE CTLR GIVEN A TA, HE WOULD NOT HAVE FOLLOWED THE COMMANDS OF HIS TCASII RA. RPTR IS OR WAS A MIL PLT ALSO AND HAD FLOWN THESE FGT MISSIONS IN FORMATION. HE STATED THAT THE WINGMAN USUALLY 'HORSES AROUND' IN ALT, VARYING ABOUT 200 FT UP AND DOWN, JUST TO RELAX AND BREAK THE LEVEL OF CONCENTRATION OR MUSCLE TENSION. THE CTLR WAS HEARD TO TELL THE FLT LEADER TO HAVE HIS WINGMAN SQUAWK 'STANDBY.' THIS INFERRED THAT, BECAUSE THE WINGMAN FORGOT TO SQUAWK STANDBY, THE USUAL WINGMAN MODE, THAT IT APPEARED TO THE ACR TCASII THAT THE FLT OF 2 HAD LEFT FL280, INSTEAD OF 1 HAVING AN EXCURSION. THIS PLACED THE ACR IN JEOPARDY NOW BECAUSE THE FLT WAS ACTUALLY AT FL280, NOT DSNDING TO ACR'S ALT. THE TCASII DID NOT KNOW THAT, BASING INFO ON A TRANSPONDER MODE THAT WASN'T ON STANDBY. WHEN ASKED WHY A TA WASN'T GIVEN, CTLR DID NOT ANSWER. RPTR ASSUMED THAT A SUPVR WAS NOW ON THE SCENE AND CTLR HESITATED TO MAKE ANY STATEMENTS REF EVENT. RPTR WANTS THIS INFO DISSEMINATED SO THAT MIL FGTS MAY BE REMINDED OF THE IMPORTANCE OF 'STANDBY' ON TRANSPONDER OR NOT 'HORSING' AROUND IN ALTDEVS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.