37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 193993 |
Time | |
Date | 199111 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : zdc |
State Reference | DC |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 23000 msl bound upper : 23000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zdc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : atp pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 8300 flight time type : 89 |
ASRS Report | 193993 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : required legal separation other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : took evasive action |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 25000 vertical : 0 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Narrative:
On climb out from bwi, handed off to center and cleared to FL230. We were put on a heading of 190 degree for several months. We hadn't heard from ATC on this frequency (121.05) for a few mins, so I confirmed our cleared altitude (FL230). We then saw an medium large transport (which turned out to belong to our company) converging from our left at approximately our altitude (we were just under FL230 and leveling off). Other aircraft was still several (approximately 5-7) mi away. Controller gave him a hard left turn and us a hard right turn just as we were taking action ourselves. (Controller apparently saw the situation developing at about the same time we did.) controller also told us to descend to FL210. He was quite 'excited' during this exchange. Both airplanes got several other turns (presumably to avoid other traffic in the area) and then handed off. At no time was any lack of separation noted by ATC to either flight crew involved, nor was any traffic pointed out. Vertical separation was near 0, and horizontal was certainly less than 5 mi at some point. The controller almost certainly forgot about (or possibly never knew about due to some shift change) one aircraft. The excess of heading changes given to each aircraft led me to believe that he may have also gotten led me to believe that he may have also gotten us mixed up after the initial evasive turns were given. It is particularly irritating to this writer that FAA personnel can 'screw up' this badly and either have the entire situation covered up (as this one almost certainly was) or else have all sanctions handled internally -- with a comparative slap on the wrist! Aircraft personnel get govt fines, time off (or dismissal), and news media-generated character assassination for similar mistakes.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: 2 SAME COMPANY ACRS HAVE LTSS. VECTORED ALL OVER THE PLACE.
Narrative: ON CLBOUT FROM BWI, HANDED OFF TO CENTER AND CLRED TO FL230. WE WERE PUT ON A HDG OF 190 DEG FOR SEVERAL MONTHS. WE HADN'T HEARD FROM ATC ON THIS FREQ (121.05) FOR A FEW MINS, SO I CONFIRMED OUR CLRED ALT (FL230). WE THEN SAW AN MLG (WHICH TURNED OUT TO BELONG TO OUR COMPANY) CONVERGING FROM OUR L AT APPROX OUR ALT (WE WERE JUST UNDER FL230 AND LEVELING OFF). OTHER ACFT WAS STILL SEVERAL (APPROX 5-7) MI AWAY. CTLR GAVE HIM A HARD L TURN AND US A HARD R TURN JUST AS WE WERE TAKING ACTION OURSELVES. (CTLR APPARENTLY SAW THE SITUATION DEVELOPING AT ABOUT THE SAME TIME WE DID.) CTLR ALSO TOLD US TO DSND TO FL210. HE WAS QUITE 'EXCITED' DURING THIS EXCHANGE. BOTH AIRPLANES GOT SEVERAL OTHER TURNS (PRESUMABLY TO AVOID OTHER TFC IN THE AREA) AND THEN HANDED OFF. AT NO TIME WAS ANY LACK OF SEPARATION NOTED BY ATC TO EITHER FLC INVOLVED, NOR WAS ANY TFC POINTED OUT. VERT SEPARATION WAS NEAR 0, AND HORIZ WAS CERTAINLY LESS THAN 5 MI AT SOME POINT. THE CTLR ALMOST CERTAINLY FORGOT ABOUT (OR POSSIBLY NEVER KNEW ABOUT DUE TO SOME SHIFT CHANGE) ONE ACFT. THE EXCESS OF HDG CHANGES GIVEN TO EACH ACFT LED ME TO BELIEVE THAT HE MAY HAVE ALSO GOTTEN LED ME TO BELIEVE THAT HE MAY HAVE ALSO GOTTEN US MIXED UP AFTER THE INITIAL EVASIVE TURNS WERE GIVEN. IT IS PARTICULARLY IRRITATING TO THIS WRITER THAT FAA PERSONNEL CAN 'SCREW UP' THIS BADLY AND EITHER HAVE THE ENTIRE SITUATION COVERED UP (AS THIS ONE ALMOST CERTAINLY WAS) OR ELSE HAVE ALL SANCTIONS HANDLED INTERNALLY -- WITH A COMPARATIVE SLAP ON THE WRIST! ACFT PERSONNEL GET GOVT FINES, TIME OFF (OR DISMISSAL), AND NEWS MEDIA-GENERATED CHARACTER ASSASSINATION FOR SIMILAR MISTAKES.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.