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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 197918 |
Time | |
Date | 199112 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2500 msl bound upper : 2500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Light Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turboprop Eng |
Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 80 flight time total : 9000 flight time type : 110 |
ASRS Report | 197918 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : atp pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance non adherence : required legal separation |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : detected after the fact |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 1000 vertical : 700 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Narrative:
During approach to lax airport, we were on radar vector to final, descending to 2000 ft on a heading of 340 degrees. We received a series of instructions as followed: ATC asked us if we could accept a left turn to 240 degrees, keeping in mind there is some WX, calls to the left which is showing on his radar to the left of us. My WX, radar was not showing any cells at all, so I responded by roger then right away ATC issued a left turn 240 degrees. Then shortly after another left turn to 220 degrees followed by stop your descent 'about' 2500 ft followed by climb to 3000 ft and another left to 190. Then he came back saying expedite your turn to 190 degrees, climb to 3000 ft. We were in light to moderate turbulence about 230 KTS of ground speed and during these instructions my TCASII gave us a TA alert at 12 O'clock. While we were turning to the left, I looked up and I saw an air carrier jet in a left turn toward the airport. I believe I did point this out to my first officer who was flying and to another pilot who was occupying the jump seat. For someone who's been flying in and out of lax airport, I considered that was a routine flight with a routine approach till about XX40 local time when I received a telephone call from lax approach supervisor asking me 'why we were not turning.' after 5-8 conversations, he told me ATC had failed to provide the min separation requirement and that the air carrier crew were very unhappy. During the entire approach ATC failed at all times to ask or request us to expedite our turn till the very last instruction which by then we were about 2800 ft climbing and on 200 heading. He also failed to recognize that we were turning into the wind.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: COMMUTER HAS CLOSE PROX WITH MLG DURING VECTORS FOR APCH. TCASII TA.
Narrative: DURING APCH TO LAX ARPT, WE WERE ON RADAR VECTOR TO FINAL, DSNDING TO 2000 FT ON A HDG OF 340 DEGS. WE RECEIVED A SERIES OF INSTRUCTIONS AS FOLLOWED: ATC ASKED US IF WE COULD ACCEPT A L TURN TO 240 DEGS, KEEPING IN MIND THERE IS SOME WX, CALLS TO THE L WHICH IS SHOWING ON HIS RADAR TO THE L OF US. MY WX, RADAR WAS NOT SHOWING ANY CELLS AT ALL, SO I RESPONDED BY ROGER THEN RIGHT AWAY ATC ISSUED A L TURN 240 DEGS. THEN SHORTLY AFTER ANOTHER L TURN TO 220 DEGS FOLLOWED BY STOP YOUR DSCNT 'ABOUT' 2500 FT FOLLOWED BY CLB TO 3000 FT AND ANOTHER L TO 190. THEN HE CAME BACK SAYING EXPEDITE YOUR TURN TO 190 DEGS, CLB TO 3000 FT. WE WERE IN LIGHT TO MODERATE TURB ABOUT 230 KTS OF GND SPD AND DURING THESE INSTRUCTIONS MY TCASII GAVE US A TA ALERT AT 12 O'CLOCK. WHILE WE WERE TURNING TO THE L, I LOOKED UP AND I SAW AN ACR JET IN A L TURN TOWARD THE ARPT. I BELIEVE I DID POINT THIS OUT TO MY FO WHO WAS FLYING AND TO ANOTHER PLT WHO WAS OCCUPYING THE JUMP SEAT. FOR SOMEONE WHO'S BEEN FLYING IN AND OUT OF LAX ARPT, I CONSIDERED THAT WAS A ROUTINE FLT WITH A ROUTINE APCH TILL ABOUT XX40 LCL TIME WHEN I RECEIVED A TELEPHONE CALL FROM LAX APCH SUPVR ASKING ME 'WHY WE WERE NOT TURNING.' AFTER 5-8 CONVERSATIONS, HE TOLD ME ATC HAD FAILED TO PROVIDE THE MIN SEPARATION REQUIREMENT AND THAT THE ACR CREW WERE VERY UNHAPPY. DURING THE ENTIRE APCH ATC FAILED AT ALL TIMES TO ASK OR REQUEST US TO EXPEDITE OUR TURN TILL THE VERY LAST INSTRUCTION WHICH BY THEN WE WERE ABOUT 2800 FT CLBING AND ON 200 HDG. HE ALSO FAILED TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE WERE TURNING INTO THE WIND.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.