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Reporter from an air carrier evinces some level of paranoia in acceptance of an ATC traffic flow restriction authorized to CAT ii III qualified pilots only.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 200240 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199201 |
| Day | Thu |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : lax |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : cle |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | ground : preflight |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 130 flight time total : 11400 flight time type : 50 |
| ASRS Report | 200240 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Weather |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
After taking a 1 hour and 10 min ATC delay at the gate in lax due to poor WX in newark, we were advised that aircraft were being released from gate holds only if they were CAT I or CAT III capable. My first officer contacted lax clearance delivery to inquire as to the status of our clearance. Lax clearance delivery stated 'we will release you from gate holds and allow you to depart only if you are CAT ii or CAT III qualified'. Since I am a high mins captain, I called our dispatcher to advise him of our situation. His response was to go ahead and accept the release and depart. Since our landing in ewr was at least 6 hours away, and the ewr WX was forecast to improve (slightly), he felt we should have no problem. I told the dispatcher that I was not comfortable telling ATC that I was CAT ii/CAT III qualified when in fact I wasn't. If the ewr WX did not improve, and I had to divert, it would be my responsibility and should the FAA decide to take action, it would be my ATP certificate they would go after. After listening to my concerns, the dispatcher put me on hold and proceeded to discuss the problem with someone (possibly the dispatch supervisor, I don't know). Several mins later, he came back on the line and said 'don't worry, we have cleared your release with ATC. They are aware of your situation and will allow you to depart.' we in fact did depart about 15 mins later and successfully completed our approach and landing in ewr. After reviewing these events in my mind over the last several days, my cynical nature tells me that our dispatchers probably did not have the authority to clear my release, and that by departing I did stick my neck out. Hopefully I will learn something from this experience and not put myself in a similar situation in the future. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: no action or reference made to reporter's flow control situation. Analyst counseled reporter on ATC procedures and possible ramifications of situation which are nil.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: RPTR FROM AN ACR EVINCES SOME LEVEL OF PARANOIA IN ACCEPTANCE OF AN ATC TFC FLOW RESTRICTION AUTHORIZED TO CAT II III QUALIFIED PLTS ONLY.
Narrative: AFTER TAKING A 1 HR AND 10 MIN ATC DELAY AT THE GATE IN LAX DUE TO POOR WX IN NEWARK, WE WERE ADVISED THAT ACFT WERE BEING RELEASED FROM GATE HOLDS ONLY IF THEY WERE CAT I OR CAT III CAPABLE. MY FO CONTACTED LAX CLRNC DELIVERY TO INQUIRE AS TO THE STATUS OF OUR CLRNC. LAX CLRNC DELIVERY STATED 'WE WILL RELEASE YOU FROM GATE HOLDS AND ALLOW YOU TO DEPART ONLY IF YOU ARE CAT II OR CAT III QUALIFIED'. SINCE I AM A HIGH MINS CAPT, I CALLED OUR DISPATCHER TO ADVISE HIM OF OUR SITUATION. HIS RESPONSE WAS TO GO AHEAD AND ACCEPT THE RELEASE AND DEPART. SINCE OUR LNDG IN EWR WAS AT LEAST 6 HRS AWAY, AND THE EWR WX WAS FORECAST TO IMPROVE (SLIGHTLY), HE FELT WE SHOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM. I TOLD THE DISPATCHER THAT I WAS NOT COMFORTABLE TELLING ATC THAT I WAS CAT II/CAT III QUALIFIED WHEN IN FACT I WASN'T. IF THE EWR WX DID NOT IMPROVE, AND I HAD TO DIVERT, IT WOULD BE MY RESPONSIBILITY AND SHOULD THE FAA DECIDE TO TAKE ACTION, IT WOULD BE MY ATP CERTIFICATE THEY WOULD GO AFTER. AFTER LISTENING TO MY CONCERNS, THE DISPATCHER PUT ME ON HOLD AND PROCEEDED TO DISCUSS THE PROBLEM WITH SOMEONE (POSSIBLY THE DISPATCH SUPVR, I DON'T KNOW). SEVERAL MINS LATER, HE CAME BACK ON THE LINE AND SAID 'DON'T WORRY, WE HAVE CLRED YOUR RELEASE WITH ATC. THEY ARE AWARE OF YOUR SITUATION AND WILL ALLOW YOU TO DEPART.' WE IN FACT DID DEPART ABOUT 15 MINS LATER AND SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETED OUR APCH AND LNDG IN EWR. AFTER REVIEWING THESE EVENTS IN MY MIND OVER THE LAST SEVERAL DAYS, MY CYNICAL NATURE TELLS ME THAT OUR DISPATCHERS PROBABLY DID NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO CLR MY RELEASE, AND THAT BY DEPARTING I DID STICK MY NECK OUT. HOPEFULLY I WILL LEARN SOMETHING FROM THIS EXPERIENCE AND NOT PUT MYSELF IN A SIMILAR SITUATION IN THE FUTURE. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: NO ACTION OR REF MADE TO RPTR'S FLOW CTL SITUATION. ANALYST COUNSELED RPTR ON ATC PROCS AND POSSIBLE RAMIFICATIONS OF SITUATION WHICH ARE NIL.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.