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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 210054 |
Time | |
Date | 199205 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2500 msl bound upper : 7000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : visual enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 8000 flight time type : 1500 |
ASRS Report | 210054 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe inflight encounter other non adherence : clearance other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : became reoriented flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Flying medium large transport arriving to lax on 'runway 24/25 profile.' crossed smo at 7000 ft MSL and headed out 070 degrees (as instructed). Approach controller had requested 'field in sight' report. Reported field in sight at 7000 ft north of lax when abeam runways. Controller advised 'short approach' and gave dscnts to 3500 ft then 2500 ft while on 070B heading (no speed assignments). At some point during descent and confign (flap/slats) changes, first officer (responding to radio) and captain (flying) both list sight of airport. Controller assigned 160 degree heading for a base leg at about 3000 ft in descent, and then 'cleared for 24R visual, contact lax tower.' first officer read back clearance, then realized he could not see the airport looking west through the haze into the (setting) sun. After advising captain, first officer attempted to communication to controller, but was unable to break in on frequency as controller talked to other aircraft. Captain, realizing aircraft was headed across 24R, 24L finals toward 25 right/left approach corridor attempted to remain 'VMC' by hard bank to right to regain 24R localizer course. Heard 2 or 3 TCASII TA's but no RA. From base leg (at 7.3 DME on 24R ILS) regained sight of 24L/right. At approximately 4.0 DME inbound, tower cleared for landing on 24L. Advised to call ATC after landing. Informed that an air carrier large transport on approach for 25L had been 'scared.' I believe this occurred because controller did not offer us the opportunity to decline the visual approach (since we could not see the field from our position) and did not appreciate the airspace required to turn 90 degrees to final at 190 KTS IAS. I will no longer report 'field in sight' to lax approach control. They take this as license to dump me whenever they like and continue talking to other aircraft.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: MLG ON APCH ASSIGNED VISUAL BUT LOSES SIGHT OF RWY ON TURN BASE TO FINAL. OVERSHOOTS FINAL CTRLINE ENCROACHES ON OTHER RWY COMPLEX APCH AREA. SCARES OTHER ACR.
Narrative: FLYING MLG ARRIVING TO LAX ON 'RWY 24/25 PROFILE.' CROSSED SMO AT 7000 FT MSL AND HEADED OUT 070 DEGS (AS INSTRUCTED). APCH CTLR HAD REQUESTED 'FIELD IN SIGHT' RPT. RPTED FIELD IN SIGHT AT 7000 FT N OF LAX WHEN ABEAM RWYS. CTLR ADVISED 'SHORT APCH' AND GAVE DSCNTS TO 3500 FT THEN 2500 FT WHILE ON 070B HDG (NO SPD ASSIGNMENTS). AT SOME POINT DURING DSCNT AND CONFIGN (FLAP/SLATS) CHANGES, FO (RESPONDING TO RADIO) AND CAPT (FLYING) BOTH LIST SIGHT OF ARPT. CTLR ASSIGNED 160 DEG HDG FOR A BASE LEG AT ABOUT 3000 FT IN DSCNT, AND THEN 'CLRED FOR 24R VISUAL, CONTACT LAX TWR.' FO READ BACK CLRNC, THEN REALIZED HE COULD NOT SEE THE ARPT LOOKING W THROUGH THE HAZE INTO THE (SETTING) SUN. AFTER ADVISING CAPT, FO ATTEMPTED TO COM TO CTLR, BUT WAS UNABLE TO BREAK IN ON FREQ AS CTLR TALKED TO OTHER ACFT. CAPT, REALIZING ACFT WAS HEADED ACROSS 24R, 24L FINALS TOWARD 25 R/L APCH CORRIDOR ATTEMPTED TO REMAIN 'VMC' BY HARD BANK TO R TO REGAIN 24R LOC COURSE. HEARD 2 OR 3 TCASII TA'S BUT NO RA. FROM BASE LEG (AT 7.3 DME ON 24R ILS) REGAINED SIGHT OF 24L/R. AT APPROX 4.0 DME INBOUND, TWR CLRED FOR LNDG ON 24L. ADVISED TO CALL ATC AFTER LNDG. INFORMED THAT AN ACR LGT ON APCH FOR 25L HAD BEEN 'SCARED.' I BELIEVE THIS OCCURRED BECAUSE CTLR DID NOT OFFER US THE OPPORTUNITY TO DECLINE THE VISUAL APCH (SINCE WE COULD NOT SEE THE FIELD FROM OUR POS) AND DID NOT APPRECIATE THE AIRSPACE REQUIRED TO TURN 90 DEGS TO FINAL AT 190 KTS IAS. I WILL NO LONGER RPT 'FIELD IN SIGHT' TO LAX APCH CTL. THEY TAKE THIS AS LICENSE TO DUMP ME WHENEVER THEY LIKE AND CONTINUE TALKING TO OTHER ACFT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.