37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 218647 |
Time | |
Date | 199208 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : rlg airport : ege |
State Reference | CO |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 19000 msl bound upper : 19000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zdv |
Operator | general aviation : corporate |
Make Model Name | Light Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | cruise other other other |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 40 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 1000 |
ASRS Report | 218647 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 60 flight time total : 11000 flight time type : 2000 |
ASRS Report | 218486 |
Events | |
Anomaly | inflight encounter : weather non adherence : clearance other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : unspecified other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
Denver center cleared us for approach to eagle airport from over rlg VOR. A small storm was over rlg so I led my 90 degree plus turn a few mi. After turning onto outbound leg a large thunderstorm was on final approach and on the initial leg. I requested holding and was told to return to rlg and hold. No radial, no efc. Center was very busy. After turning toward rlg the thunderstorm was building rapidly and had started to contour on our radio. Telling center we would not be able to hold we were given a heading south. After several turns to miss WX and for center we were told to hold or fly east of rlg. Since center knew a thunderstorm was over rlg and center gave no radial. I was flying between storms between the 030 degree and 150 degree radial. On a heading of 120 degrees center told us to immediately turn left to 340 degrees and descend to 18000. No comment was made if separation standards were lost. More standard and specific instructions could have prevented us from possible being in conflict with other traffic. Heavy workload for controller in mountain region and lack of radar can lead to aircraft separation being lost. One way into and out of some airports, thunderstorms, and high mountains prevent what are normal options on flat land from being used. Supplemental information from acn 218486. The frequency became very congested at that point. And we were not able to communicate the fact that a heading of 090 degrees would put us into a thunderstorm. We turned to a heading of 12 degrees to avoid the WX. The frequency remained congested until what sounded like an ATC supervisor took over and ordered an immediate descent to FL180 and a turn back toward the north. Again this heading turned us back into WX. Every following heading change ATC requested turned us into WX. At this time the thunderstorm north and east of the airport had moved east. A safe distance to allow an approach from the west side of the airport. We requested a route south and then west around the WX in order to approach veil from the west. Essentially toward grand junction and then back. Instead ATC turned us north. To go around the WX to the north we would have required 100 NM north then a turn west, then south again. About 200 NM additional. Fuel was not sufficient for this. Diverted to jefco airport. Never refueled and proceed to veil, ATC has to realize that we cannot fly into contouring thunderstorms. They were totally inflexible.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CAPT OF CPR LTT ACFT DEV FROM ASSIGNED HDG TO AVOID TSTM ACTIVITY.
Narrative: DENVER CTR CLRED US FOR APCH TO EAGLE ARPT FROM OVER RLG VOR. A SMALL STORM WAS OVER RLG SO I LED MY 90 DEG PLUS TURN A FEW MI. AFTER TURNING ONTO OUTBOUND LEG A LARGE TSTM WAS ON FINAL APCH AND ON THE INITIAL LEG. I REQUESTED HOLDING AND WAS TOLD TO RETURN TO RLG AND HOLD. NO RADIAL, NO EFC. CTR WAS VERY BUSY. AFTER TURNING TOWARD RLG THE TSTM WAS BUILDING RAPIDLY AND HAD STARTED TO CONTOUR ON OUR RADIO. TELLING CTR WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO HOLD WE WERE GIVEN A HDG S. AFTER SEVERAL TURNS TO MISS WX AND FOR CTR WE WERE TOLD TO HOLD OR FLY E OF RLG. SINCE CTR KNEW A TSTM WAS OVER RLG AND CTR GAVE NO RADIAL. I WAS FLYING BTWN STORMS BTWN THE 030 DEG AND 150 DEG RADIAL. ON A HDG OF 120 DEGS CTR TOLD US TO IMMEDIATELY TURN L TO 340 DEGS AND DSND TO 18000. NO COMMENT WAS MADE IF SEPARATION STANDARDS WERE LOST. MORE STANDARD AND SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS COULD HAVE PREVENTED US FROM POSSIBLE BEING IN CONFLICT WITH OTHER TFC. HVY WORKLOAD FOR CTLR IN MOUNTAIN REGION AND LACK OF RADAR CAN LEAD TO ACFT SEPARATION BEING LOST. ONE WAY INTO AND OUT OF SOME ARPTS, TSTMS, AND HIGH MOUNTAINS PREVENT WHAT ARE NORMAL OPTIONS ON FLAT LAND FROM BEING USED. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 218486. THE FREQ BECAME VERY CONGESTED AT THAT POINT. AND WE WERE NOT ABLE TO COMMUNICATE THE FACT THAT A HDG OF 090 DEGS WOULD PUT US INTO A TSTM. WE TURNED TO A HDG OF 12 DEGS TO AVOID THE WX. THE FREQ REMAINED CONGESTED UNTIL WHAT SOUNDED LIKE AN ATC SUPVR TOOK OVER AND ORDERED AN IMMEDIATE DSCNT TO FL180 AND A TURN BACK TOWARD THE N. AGAIN THIS HDG TURNED US BACK INTO WX. EVERY FOLLOWING HDG CHANGE ATC REQUESTED TURNED US INTO WX. AT THIS TIME THE TSTM N AND E OF THE ARPT HAD MOVED E. A SAFE DISTANCE TO ALLOW AN APCH FROM THE W SIDE OF THE ARPT. WE REQUESTED A RTE S AND THEN W AROUND THE WX IN ORDER TO APCH VEIL FROM THE W. ESSENTIALLY TOWARD GRAND JUNCTION AND THEN BACK. INSTEAD ATC TURNED US N. TO GAR THE WX TO THE N WE WOULD HAVE REQUIRED 100 NM N THEN A TURN W, THEN S AGAIN. ABOUT 200 NM ADDITIONAL. FUEL WAS NOT SUFFICIENT FOR THIS. DIVERTED TO JEFCO ARPT. NEVER REFUELED AND PROCEED TO VEIL, ATC HAS TO REALIZE THAT WE CANNOT FLY INTO CONTOURING TSTMS. THEY WERE TOTALLY INFLEXIBLE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.