Narrative:

I was the captain of flight X in and out of laguardia on jan/sun/93. It was a snowy evening with snow fall rates ranging from heavy to light. When we landed, no gates were available due to at-gate-deicing. We learned of a sequencing procedure that coordinated deicing and taxi-out, a cue control, but no one knew how to initiate it. The FAA tower people knew of the procedure but, could not or would not initiate it. Our company operation controls could not or would not. I even sent an ACARS message to system on its need. But, it was not initiated. Type ii de-ice fluid is new to lga. It was available and in use. But, there was little communication with de-ice crew and the cockpit. Further, the company operations controller stated that de-icing was a 2 truck operation. Based on that information and the lack of direct communication with the de-ice crew, flts were delayed on the gate awaiting a second de-ice truck that did not come. The de-icing was in fact a 2 step procedure using type I and ii from the same truck. The de-icing information was being relayed to the cockpit via the pushback crew, not the de-ice crew. Thus, crews would not call for pushback because they were awaiting a de-ice complete message. Pushback crews were not relaying the de-ice information till pushback was initiated. Flight Y pushed back an hour and 15 mins late at MM00 pm. We had been de- iced with both types of fluid. Our 45 min hold over time started at LL53. We taxied out to find lga in a 1 runway operation. We were #12 for takeoff. We were cleared for takeoff at MM37, 1 min before our hold over time expired. Given the long gate delay generated by de-icing at the gate, and the long taxi-out times, it seems logical to me that a 'car wash' de-ice facility be created at lga immediately.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: AN ACR MLG CAPT BELIEVES THAT THERE SHOULD BE A 'CAR WASH' TYPE OF DE-ICING EQUIP AT LGA TO EXPEDITE DEPS AND PREVENT HAVING GO RETURN TO THE GATE IF GND TIME IS EXCEEDED AFTER DEICING.

Narrative: I WAS THE CAPT OF FLT X IN AND OUT OF LAGUARDIA ON JAN/SUN/93. IT WAS A SNOWY EVENING WITH SNOW FALL RATES RANGING FROM HVY TO LIGHT. WHEN WE LANDED, NO GATES WERE AVAILABLE DUE TO AT-GATE-DEICING. WE LEARNED OF A SEQUENCING PROC THAT COORDINATED DEICING AND TAXI-OUT, A CUE CTL, BUT NO ONE KNEW HOW TO INITIATE IT. THE FAA TWR PEOPLE KNEW OF THE PROC BUT, COULD NOT OR WOULD NOT INITIATE IT. OUR COMPANY OP CTLS COULD NOT OR WOULD NOT. I EVEN SENT AN ACARS MESSAGE TO SYS ON ITS NEED. BUT, IT WAS NOT INITIATED. TYPE II DE-ICE FLUID IS NEW TO LGA. IT WAS AVAILABLE AND IN USE. BUT, THERE WAS LITTLE COM WITH DE-ICE CREW AND THE COCKPIT. FURTHER, THE COMPANY OPS CTLR STATED THAT DE-ICING WAS A 2 TRUCK OP. BASED ON THAT INFO AND THE LACK OF DIRECT COM WITH THE DE-ICE CREW, FLTS WERE DELAYED ON THE GATE AWAITING A SECOND DE-ICE TRUCK THAT DID NOT COME. THE DE-ICING WAS IN FACT A 2 STEP PROC USING TYPE I AND II FROM THE SAME TRUCK. THE DE-ICING INFO WAS BEING RELAYED TO THE COCKPIT VIA THE PUSHBACK CREW, NOT THE DE-ICE CREW. THUS, CREWS WOULD NOT CALL FOR PUSHBACK BECAUSE THEY WERE AWAITING A DE-ICE COMPLETE MESSAGE. PUSHBACK CREWS WERE NOT RELAYING THE DE-ICE INFO TILL PUSHBACK WAS INITIATED. FLT Y PUSHED BACK AN HR AND 15 MINS LATE AT MM00 PM. WE HAD BEEN DE- ICED WITH BOTH TYPES OF FLUID. OUR 45 MIN HOLD OVER TIME STARTED AT LL53. WE TAXIED OUT TO FIND LGA IN A 1 RWY OP. WE WERE #12 FOR TKOF. WE WERE CLRED FOR TKOF AT MM37, 1 MIN BEFORE OUR HOLD OVER TIME EXPIRED. GIVEN THE LONG GATE DELAY GENERATED BY DE-ICING AT THE GATE, AND THE LONG TAXI-OUT TIMES, IT SEEMS LOGICAL TO ME THAT A 'CAR WASH' DE-ICE FACILITY BE CREATED AT LGA IMMEDIATELY.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.