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Given late descent clearance from 19000 ft to 15000 ft but ATC later claimed no such clearance was issued.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 233166 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199302 |
| Day | Mon |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : bgi |
| State Reference | FO |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 15000 msl bound upper : 19000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : bgi |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | cruise other descent other |
| Route In Use | enroute : atlantic enroute : other oceanic enroute airway : ua632 |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 10300 flight time type : 300 |
| ASRS Report | 233166 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude non adherence : clearance |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : detected after the fact |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
| Air Traffic Incident | Inter Facility Coordination Failure other |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
Sbound on VA632 at FL190 en route from jfk to barbados. For some time we had been requesting a descent from piarco center, with whom we were in contact with on 123.7. Finally, approximately 20 NM north of bgi (still on VA632) piarco cleared us to 'descend to FL150, report leaving FL180.' my first officer read the clearance back, we both confirmed FL150 set in the altitude window (via new procedure) received what we understood was verification from piarco, and began a descent. Piarco then gave us directions to contact adams approach on frequency 129.35. We did and called leveling at FL150. Adams informed us we should still be level at FL190. We informed adams that piarco had cleared us to FL150 and would he (adams) like us to climb back to FL190? He replied to the negative and then vectored us for additional descent as now we were within 10 mi of the field and still at FL150. We were vectored to and flew an ILS to runway 9 and landed uneventfully. I contacted adams approach control immediately by phone and queried him as to what was going on, ie, why had piarco descended us so late, why piarco did not hand us off to adams earlier and why did they keep us so high so long. He (adams) then called piarco, who denied ever having given us the descent clearance. Adams controller then complained to me that they (adams) have this type of 'trouble' with piarco all the time, particularly with late handoffs to adams. The problem seems to have arisen from a timing problem with piarco center. In defense of piarco I will say that at the time he was working me, he was working quite a few other aircraft and seemed task saturated. I would recommend ICAO introduce further training to piarco as I felt adams was fairly capable and seemed to react very professionally to the situation. I also recommend piarco be equipped with mode 3A interrogation capability because much of his (piarco's) energy was spent querying aircraft as to their radial and DME from bgi. A very haphazard situation at best.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: GIVEN LATE DSCNT CLRNC FROM 19000 FT TO 15000 FT BUT ATC LATER CLAIMED NO SUCH CLRNC WAS ISSUED.
Narrative: SBOUND ON VA632 AT FL190 ENRTE FROM JFK TO BARBADOS. FOR SOME TIME WE HAD BEEN REQUESTING A DSCNT FROM PIARCO CTR, WITH WHOM WE WERE IN CONTACT WITH ON 123.7. FINALLY, APPROX 20 NM N OF BGI (STILL ON VA632) PIARCO CLRED US TO 'DSND TO FL150, RPT LEAVING FL180.' MY FO READ THE CLRNC BACK, WE BOTH CONFIRMED FL150 SET IN THE ALT WINDOW (VIA NEW PROC) RECEIVED WHAT WE UNDERSTOOD WAS VERIFICATION FROM PIARCO, AND BEGAN A DSCNT. PIARCO THEN GAVE US DIRECTIONS TO CONTACT ADAMS APCH ON FREQ 129.35. WE DID AND CALLED LEVELING AT FL150. ADAMS INFORMED US WE SHOULD STILL BE LEVEL AT FL190. WE INFORMED ADAMS THAT PIARCO HAD CLRED US TO FL150 AND WOULD HE (ADAMS) LIKE US TO CLB BACK TO FL190? HE REPLIED TO THE NEGATIVE AND THEN VECTORED US FOR ADDITIONAL DSCNT AS NOW WE WERE WITHIN 10 MI OF THE FIELD AND STILL AT FL150. WE WERE VECTORED TO AND FLEW AN ILS TO RWY 9 AND LANDED UNEVENTFULLY. I CONTACTED ADAMS APCH CTL IMMEDIATELY BY PHONE AND QUERIED HIM AS TO WHAT WAS GOING ON, IE, WHY HAD PIARCO DSNDED US SO LATE, WHY PIARCO DID NOT HAND US OFF TO ADAMS EARLIER AND WHY DID THEY KEEP US SO HIGH SO LONG. HE (ADAMS) THEN CALLED PIARCO, WHO DENIED EVER HAVING GIVEN US THE DSCNT CLRNC. ADAMS CTLR THEN COMPLAINED TO ME THAT THEY (ADAMS) HAVE THIS TYPE OF 'TROUBLE' WITH PIARCO ALL THE TIME, PARTICULARLY WITH LATE HDOFS TO ADAMS. THE PROB SEEMS TO HAVE ARISEN FROM A TIMING PROB WITH PIARCO CTR. IN DEFENSE OF PIARCO I WILL SAY THAT AT THE TIME HE WAS WORKING ME, HE WAS WORKING QUITE A FEW OTHER ACFT AND SEEMED TASK SATURATED. I WOULD RECOMMEND ICAO INTRODUCE FURTHER TRAINING TO PIARCO AS I FELT ADAMS WAS FAIRLY CAPABLE AND SEEMED TO REACT VERY PROFESSIONALLY TO THE SIT. I ALSO RECOMMEND PIARCO BE EQUIPPED WITH MODE 3A INTERROGATION CAPABILITY BECAUSE MUCH OF HIS (PIARCO'S) ENERGY WAS SPENT QUERYING ACFT AS TO THEIR RADIAL AND DME FROM BGI. A VERY HAPHAZARD SIT AT BEST.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.