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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 250315 |
Time | |
Date | 199308 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : dca |
State Reference | DC |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 3000 msl bound upper : 3000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : dca |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude cruise other |
Route In Use | departure : noise abatement enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 120 flight time total : 5300 flight time type : 4000 |
ASRS Report | 250315 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : undershoot conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : took evasive action none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 3000 vertical : 500 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
We depart dca, it was a hot summer day, temperature in the 90's. Our aircraft was full and heavy. We were told to depart south (runway 18) via the noise abatement procedure. This calls for a reduced climb thrust setting of 1.6 EPR. A heavy, high temperatures and with a low power setting does not perform very well. Maybe the aircraft will climb 1000 FPM. After the departure the controller told us to turn left to 90 degrees and 'best rate of climb' for traffic. This procedure is very specific about adhering to the profile. The only time you are authorized to use full climb thrust is if the controller specifically says 'expedite climb.' the controller did not say that, so we remained on the profile. The captain and I both agreed on that as we climbed out. Then the controller said, in a panicky voice, 'turn right to 150 degrees and best rate of climb for traffic.' at the same time the captain had the other aircraft visually on the left. This time I went to maximum power and made a hard right turn. Also, at the same time, the TCASII said 'descend, descend.' also, the other aircraft had us visually and stopped his climb. We disregarded the TCASII due to the fact we had the other aircraft visual and we were above the other aircraft. A week prior on the same trip we had a similar clearance 'best rate of climb' but there was no other aircraft involved. It seems that the controllers are trying to have it both ways -- a quiet airport environment and efficient traffic management. This could have been avoided if the controller would have used the proper term of 'expedite climb.' this noise abatement procedure is not very safe. Short runways and narrow operating airspace does not help the situation.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: PHRASEOLOGY PROB IN CLRNC INTERP ON TFC AVOIDANCE PROCS MIXED WITH NOISE ABATEMENT PROCS. POTENTIAL CONFLICT ENSUES.
Narrative: WE DEPART DCA, IT WAS A HOT SUMMER DAY, TEMP IN THE 90'S. OUR ACFT WAS FULL AND HVY. WE WERE TOLD TO DEPART S (RWY 18) VIA THE NOISE ABATEMENT PROC. THIS CALLS FOR A REDUCED CLB THRUST SETTING OF 1.6 EPR. A HVY, HIGH TEMPS AND WITH A LOW PWR SETTING DOES NOT PERFORM VERY WELL. MAYBE THE ACFT WILL CLB 1000 FPM. AFTER THE DEP THE CTLR TOLD US TO TURN L TO 90 DEGS AND 'BEST RATE OF CLB' FOR TFC. THIS PROC IS VERY SPECIFIC ABOUT ADHERING TO THE PROFILE. THE ONLY TIME YOU ARE AUTHORIZED TO USE FULL CLB THRUST IS IF THE CTLR SPECIFICALLY SAYS 'EXPEDITE CLB.' THE CTLR DID NOT SAY THAT, SO WE REMAINED ON THE PROFILE. THE CAPT AND I BOTH AGREED ON THAT AS WE CLBED OUT. THEN THE CTLR SAID, IN A PANICKY VOICE, 'TURN R TO 150 DEGS AND BEST RATE OF CLB FOR TFC.' AT THE SAME TIME THE CAPT HAD THE OTHER ACFT VISUALLY ON THE L. THIS TIME I WENT TO MAX PWR AND MADE A HARD R TURN. ALSO, AT THE SAME TIME, THE TCASII SAID 'DSND, DSND.' ALSO, THE OTHER ACFT HAD US VISUALLY AND STOPPED HIS CLB. WE DISREGARDED THE TCASII DUE TO THE FACT WE HAD THE OTHER ACFT VISUAL AND WE WERE ABOVE THE OTHER ACFT. A WK PRIOR ON THE SAME TRIP WE HAD A SIMILAR CLRNC 'BEST RATE OF CLB' BUT THERE WAS NO OTHER ACFT INVOLVED. IT SEEMS THAT THE CTLRS ARE TRYING TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS -- A QUIET ARPT ENVIRONMENT AND EFFICIENT TFC MGMNT. THIS COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED IF THE CTLR WOULD HAVE USED THE PROPER TERM OF 'EXPEDITE CLB.' THIS NOISE ABATEMENT PROC IS NOT VERY SAFE. SHORT RWYS AND NARROW OPERATING AIRSPACE DOES NOT HELP THE SIT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.