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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 256807 |
Time | |
Date | 199311 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : pxv |
State Reference | IN |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 35000 msl bound upper : 35000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zme artcc : zfw tower : pit |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Route In Use | enroute airway : zfw |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 255 flight time total : 13800 flight time type : 2800 |
ASRS Report | 256807 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 15000 flight time type : 4000 |
ASRS Report | 257213 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | none taken : unable |
Consequence | faa : assigned or threatened penalties |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
We were south of pxv on J-131 en route to iah. ZME said they had a rerte. The new route was north of dfw and into iah from the northwest. We had enough fuel for our route plus reserve and 10 mins of holding fuel. The new route added about 20 mins to the route. We advised center we couldn't accept the rerte because it would put us in an unsafe minimum fuel before we landed at iah. ZME handed us off to ZFW. They tried to give us the same rerte. We explained why we couldn't accept the rerte. When we were switched to the next controller he said he was filing a pilot deviation report. When we were about 100 mi nne of iah, we did accept a rerte to the south of LOA and over cugar. This added about 5 mins of time to our route and was within our fuel requirement. We landed in iah with no other problems. Flight pit-iah. Controller may need to work with the pilot when fuel becomes a problem. Supplemental information from acn 257213: ATC wanted to give us a rerte which added 23 mins to our flight. We had the 45 required reserve plus 15 mins extra fuel. The captain refused the clearance. ATC asked if we were minimum fuel (at that point, we were not minimum fuel because we could accept a small deviation to our routing). We stated that we were not minimum fuel at present but that the new route would take us beyond minimum fuel to emergency fuel if we accepted the rerte. Surprisingly, the controller seemed not to be sympathetic. He gave us the new clearance. We didn't accept for the above reasons. How can we accept an ATC clearance which will put us in an emergency fuel situation even though deviation airports are nearby. Is that good judgement? The FARS don't seem to be much help in this area. I'm still not sure I know the correct answer other than I will not knowingly put an aircraft in situation which will result in an emergency.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR PLT REFUSES RERTE THAT WILL ADD ADDITIONAL TIME TO FLT AND RESULT IN MINIMUM FUEL STATUS.
Narrative: WE WERE S OF PXV ON J-131 ENRTE TO IAH. ZME SAID THEY HAD A RERTE. THE NEW RTE WAS N OF DFW AND INTO IAH FROM THE NW. WE HAD ENOUGH FUEL FOR OUR RTE PLUS RESERVE AND 10 MINS OF HOLDING FUEL. THE NEW RTE ADDED ABOUT 20 MINS TO THE RTE. WE ADVISED CTR WE COULDN'T ACCEPT THE RERTE BECAUSE IT WOULD PUT US IN AN UNSAFE MINIMUM FUEL BEFORE WE LANDED AT IAH. ZME HANDED US OFF TO ZFW. THEY TRIED TO GIVE US THE SAME RERTE. WE EXPLAINED WHY WE COULDN'T ACCEPT THE RERTE. WHEN WE WERE SWITCHED TO THE NEXT CTLR HE SAID HE WAS FILING A PLTDEV RPT. WHEN WE WERE ABOUT 100 MI NNE OF IAH, WE DID ACCEPT A RERTE TO THE S OF LOA AND OVER CUGAR. THIS ADDED ABOUT 5 MINS OF TIME TO OUR RTE AND WAS WITHIN OUR FUEL REQUIREMENT. WE LANDED IN IAH WITH NO OTHER PROBS. FLT PIT-IAH. CTLR MAY NEED TO WORK WITH THE PLT WHEN FUEL BECOMES A PROB. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 257213: ATC WANTED TO GIVE US A RERTE WHICH ADDED 23 MINS TO OUR FLT. WE HAD THE 45 REQUIRED RESERVE PLUS 15 MINS EXTRA FUEL. THE CAPT REFUSED THE CLRNC. ATC ASKED IF WE WERE MINIMUM FUEL (AT THAT POINT, WE WERE NOT MINIMUM FUEL BECAUSE WE COULD ACCEPT A SMALL DEV TO OUR ROUTING). WE STATED THAT WE WERE NOT MINIMUM FUEL AT PRESENT BUT THAT THE NEW RTE WOULD TAKE US BEYOND MINIMUM FUEL TO EMER FUEL IF WE ACCEPTED THE RERTE. SURPRISINGLY, THE CTLR SEEMED NOT TO BE SYMPATHETIC. HE GAVE US THE NEW CLRNC. WE DIDN'T ACCEPT FOR THE ABOVE REASONS. HOW CAN WE ACCEPT AN ATC CLRNC WHICH WILL PUT US IN AN EMER FUEL SIT EVEN THOUGH DEV ARPTS ARE NEARBY. IS THAT GOOD JUDGEMENT? THE FARS DON'T SEEM TO BE MUCH HELP IN THIS AREA. I'M STILL NOT SURE I KNOW THE CORRECT ANSWER OTHER THAN I WILL NOT KNOWINGLY PUT AN ACFT IN SIT WHICH WILL RESULT IN AN EMER.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.