Air carrier X TCASII RA with aircraft Y while on visual approach to parallel runway.

Attributes
ACN	266733
Time
Date	199403
Day	Sat
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : dfw
State Reference	TX
Altitude	msl bound lower : 3000 msl bound upper : 3000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : dfw
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Commercial Fixed Wing
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	Other Other
Flight Phase	descent : approach
Route In Use	enroute : on vectors
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Make Model Name	Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer
Operating Under FAR Part	other : unknown
Flight Phase	descent : approach
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	other personnel other
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 16000 flight time type : 4600
ASRS Report	266733
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Events
Anomaly	conflict : airborne less severe
Independent Detector	aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified
Resolutory Action	controller : issued new clearance other
Consequence	faa : reviewed incident with flight crew
Miss Distance	horizontal : 6000 vertical : 0
Supplementary
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	other

Narrative:

I was on the jumpseat giving the captain his annual line check during approach to dfw. Visual approachs were being made to runway 17L and 18R in good visual conditions and vectored toward runway 17L off blue ridge VOR arrival. Vectors, speed reductions and altitude changes were accomplished. I saw traffic on a high runway 17L downwind go overhead and we were given a right turn to 260 degrees at 230 KTS and 3000 ft MSL. The airport was in sight and numerous aircraft were observed visually and on TCASII. Approach asked if a specific aircraft Y to our left was in sight. The crew responded they were unsure of the specific traffic. Our flight path continued toward the west. The crew was discussing traffic and trying to sort out the situation while I heard the controller ask if we had the airport. I relayed the radio call the crew had missed to the crew and the controller again asked if they had the airport. The crew responded they had the airport and the controller ordered an 'immediate' left turn. During the turn, an aircraft on approach runway 18R became a TCASII RA with 'monitor vertical speed' which the crew complied with. Approach gave us runway 17R because tower saw a problem and we landed runway 17R. The controller seemed to expect and need visual contact with a specific aircraft. Identify of a specific aircraft may be difficult or impossible in a crowded sky. We needed vectors on to final not an intercept vector since calls about traffic went back and forth several times, a radio call was missed and we earned a TCASII RA. I have debriefed this with my company and they played back the voice tapes. A supervisor said the approach handling was 'sloppy.' this is a real problem in dfw and vectors north the final, then a visual are needed. The crew should have volunteered that they didn't have the specific traffic but did have the airport. Approach could have asked if we had the airport and pointed out traffic later. Crews are reluctant to accept a visual if they have to assume separation from an aircraft they are unsure of.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: ACR X TCASII RA WITH ACFT Y WHILE ON VISUAL APCH TO PARALLEL RWY.

Narrative: I WAS ON THE JUMPSEAT GIVING THE CAPT HIS ANNUAL LINE CHK DURING APCH TO DFW. VISUAL APCHS WERE BEING MADE TO RWY 17L AND 18R IN GOOD VISUAL CONDITIONS AND VECTORED TOWARD RWY 17L OFF BLUE RIDGE VOR ARR. VECTORS, SPD REDUCTIONS AND ALT CHANGES WERE ACCOMPLISHED. I SAW TFC ON A HIGH RWY 17L DOWNWIND GO OVERHEAD AND WE WERE GIVEN A R TURN TO 260 DEGS AT 230 KTS AND 3000 FT MSL. THE ARPT WAS IN SIGHT AND NUMEROUS ACFT WERE OBSERVED VISUALLY AND ON TCASII. APCH ASKED IF A SPECIFIC ACFT Y TO OUR L WAS IN SIGHT. THE CREW RESPONDED THEY WERE UNSURE OF THE SPECIFIC TFC. OUR FLT PATH CONTINUED TOWARD THE W. THE CREW WAS DISCUSSING TFC AND TRYING TO SORT OUT THE SIT WHILE I HEARD THE CTLR ASK IF WE HAD THE ARPT. I RELAYED THE RADIO CALL THE CREW HAD MISSED TO THE CREW AND THE CTLR AGAIN ASKED IF THEY HAD THE ARPT. THE CREW RESPONDED THEY HAD THE ARPT AND THE CTLR ORDERED AN 'IMMEDIATE' L TURN. DURING THE TURN, AN ACFT ON APCH RWY 18R BECAME A TCASII RA WITH 'MONITOR VERT SPD' WHICH THE CREW COMPLIED WITH. APCH GAVE US RWY 17R BECAUSE TWR SAW A PROB AND WE LANDED RWY 17R. THE CTLR SEEMED TO EXPECT AND NEED VISUAL CONTACT WITH A SPECIFIC ACFT. IDENT OF A SPECIFIC ACFT MAY BE DIFFICULT OR IMPOSSIBLE IN A CROWDED SKY. WE NEEDED VECTORS ON TO FINAL NOT AN INTERCEPT VECTOR SINCE CALLS ABOUT TFC WENT BACK AND FORTH SEVERAL TIMES, A RADIO CALL WAS MISSED AND WE EARNED A TCASII RA. I HAVE DEBRIEFED THIS WITH MY COMPANY AND THEY PLAYED BACK THE VOICE TAPES. A SUPVR SAID THE APCH HANDLING WAS 'SLOPPY.' THIS IS A REAL PROB IN DFW AND VECTORS N THE FINAL, THEN A VISUAL ARE NEEDED. THE CREW SHOULD HAVE VOLUNTEERED THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE SPECIFIC TFC BUT DID HAVE THE ARPT. APCH COULD HAVE ASKED IF WE HAD THE ARPT AND POINTED OUT TFC LATER. CREWS ARE RELUCTANT TO ACCEPT A VISUAL IF THEY HAVE TO ASSUME SEPARATION FROM AN ACFT THEY ARE UNSURE OF.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.