Air carrier X had less than standard separation from air carrier Y. System error. 2 aircraft penetra...

Attributes
ACN	277726
Time
Date	199407
Day	Tue
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : lax
State Reference	CA
Altitude	msl bound lower : 3500 msl bound upper : 3500
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : lax
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Commercial Fixed Wing
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	cruise other
Route In Use	enroute : on vectors
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Beech 1900
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	descent : approach
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	government : faa
Function	controller : approach
Qualification	controller : radar
ASRS Report	277726
Person 2
Affiliation	government : faa
Function	controller : approach
Qualification	controller : radar
Events
Anomaly	conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : published procedure non adherence : required legal separation other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	controller : issued new clearance
Consequence	Other
Miss Distance	horizontal : 6000 vertical : 500
Supplementary
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Operational Deviation Operational Error

Narrative:

I was working the stadium sector (north arrival sector), traffic was extremely heavy. The associate radar position and the zuma sector were combined at my position. I was extended beyond my normal base leg turning point because of the number of heavy jets and the amount of traffic being put on my runway from the downey sector. I had asked the coordination (ci-2) if I could turn base leg with acb X commuter at 3500 MSL, normally you would turn base leg at 2500 ft when on simultaneous approachs, the ci-2 approved the operation. I was to the point where I was no longer able to keep the aircraft on the downwind in the confines of class B airspace. I turned the commuter on base leg and immediately noticed air carrier Y at his 12 O'clock position 1 and 1/2 mi same altitude. I issued a traffic alert and advised him to descend immediately to 2500 ft. X reported Y insight and I cleared him for the runway 24 right ILS approach. As soon as I issued the approach clearance. I observed the downey controller on the runway 25 left localizer at 4000 ft. I asked the ci-2 what was going on over at downey and I was told that he was extremely busy also and forgot to protect my aircraft with altitude separation. I estimate separation between the 2 aircraft at less than 500 ft and 1-2 mi lateral separation. The area manager and supervisor was standing behind us at the time of the occurrence. I heard the ci-2 controller tell the area manager at one point that we were unable to stay within the confines of our airspace because of the volume of traffic and that ontario approach was unable to give us permission to enter their airspace. The ci-2 went on to say that ontario would be calling because we had penetrated their airspace on at least 2 different occasions. An operational error had occurred that both the area manager and area supervisor had witnessed and nothing was done. A possible solution to this situation is to staff the positions during moderate or greater traffic, ie, open the feeder sector (zuma) and the associate handoff position.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: ACR X HAD LTSS FROM ACR Y. SYS ERROR. 2 ACFT PENETRATION OF ADJACENT APCH CTL AIRSPACE. OP DEV.

Narrative: I WAS WORKING THE STADIUM SECTOR (N ARR SECTOR), TFC WAS EXTREMELY HVY. THE ASSOCIATE RADAR POS AND THE ZUMA SECTOR WERE COMBINED AT MY POS. I WAS EXTENDED BEYOND MY NORMAL BASE LEG TURNING POINT BECAUSE OF THE NUMBER OF HVY JETS AND THE AMOUNT OF TFC BEING PUT ON MY RWY FROM THE DOWNEY SECTOR. I HAD ASKED THE COORD (CI-2) IF I COULD TURN BASE LEG WITH ACB X COMMUTER AT 3500 MSL, NORMALLY YOU WOULD TURN BASE LEG AT 2500 FT WHEN ON SIMULTANEOUS APCHS, THE CI-2 APPROVED THE OP. I WAS TO THE POINT WHERE I WAS NO LONGER ABLE TO KEEP THE ACFT ON THE DOWNWIND IN THE CONFINES OF CLASS B AIRSPACE. I TURNED THE COMMUTER ON BASE LEG AND IMMEDIATELY NOTICED ACR Y AT HIS 12 O'CLOCK POS 1 AND 1/2 MI SAME ALT. I ISSUED A TFC ALERT AND ADVISED HIM TO DSND IMMEDIATELY TO 2500 FT. X RPTED Y INSIGHT AND I CLRED HIM FOR THE RWY 24 R ILS APCH. AS SOON AS I ISSUED THE APCH CLRNC. I OBSERVED THE DOWNEY CTLR ON THE RWY 25 L LOC AT 4000 FT. I ASKED THE CI-2 WHAT WAS GOING ON OVER AT DOWNEY AND I WAS TOLD THAT HE WAS EXTREMELY BUSY ALSO AND FORGOT TO PROTECT MY ACFT WITH ALT SEPARATION. I ESTIMATE SEPARATION BTWN THE 2 ACFT AT LESS THAN 500 FT AND 1-2 MI LATERAL SEPARATION. THE AREA MGR AND SUPVR WAS STANDING BEHIND US AT THE TIME OF THE OCCURRENCE. I HEARD THE CI-2 CTLR TELL THE AREA MGR AT ONE POINT THAT WE WERE UNABLE TO STAY WITHIN THE CONFINES OF OUR AIRSPACE BECAUSE OF THE VOLUME OF TFC AND THAT ONTARIO APCH WAS UNABLE TO GIVE US PERMISSION TO ENTER THEIR AIRSPACE. THE CI-2 WENT ON TO SAY THAT ONTARIO WOULD BE CALLING BECAUSE WE HAD PENETRATED THEIR AIRSPACE ON AT LEAST 2 DIFFERENT OCCASIONS. AN OPERATIONAL ERROR HAD OCCURRED THAT BOTH THE AREA MGR AND AREA SUPVR HAD WITNESSED AND NOTHING WAS DONE. A POSSIBLE SOLUTION TO THIS SIT IS TO STAFF THE POSITIONS DURING MODERATE OR GREATER TFC, IE, OPEN THE FEEDER SECTOR (ZUMA) AND THE ASSOCIATE HDOF POS.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

Air carrier X had less than standard separation from air carrier Y. System error. 2 aircraft penetration of adjacent approach control airspace. Operation deviation.