TRACON controller gives turn to departing B-727 because it appears that a climb restr altitude will ...

Attributes
ACN	278207
Time
Date	199407
Day	Mon
Local Time Of Day	1801 To 2400
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : dxo airport : dtw
State Reference	MI
Altitude	msl bound lower : 3000 msl bound upper : 3000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Night
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : dtw
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B727 Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	climbout : intermediate altitude
Route In Use	departure other departure sid : sid enroute : on vectors
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : commercial pilot : atp pilot : instrument
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 13500 flight time type : 2000
ASRS Report	278207
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : instrument pilot : commercial
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance other anomaly other
Independent Detector	atc equipment other atc equipment : unspecified other controllera
Resolutory Action	controller : issued new clearance other
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	other

Narrative:

All dtw sids require aircraft to be at or above 5000 ft MSL by 10 DME. Our B-727 at 180000 pounds and 68 degrees-F (current temperature) will make that restr. We shallow the climb after takeoff as we gain speed to retract flaps. Then we climb at maximum angle of climb. At 6 1/2 DME and approximately 3000 ft, dtw departure control instructed us to turn to 120 degrees (from 200 degrees) and stated that we were not going to make the restriction and we should have notified him earlier if we could not make restr. This was all presumption on his part because we felt that we would just make the restr. Obviously, departure control has been spoiled by B-757's and the like.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: TRACON CTLR GIVES TURN TO DEPARTING B-727 BECAUSE IT APPEARS THAT A CLB RESTR ALT WILL NOT BE MET.

Narrative: ALL DTW SIDS REQUIRE ACFT TO BE AT OR ABOVE 5000 FT MSL BY 10 DME. OUR B-727 AT 180000 LBS AND 68 DEGS-F (CURRENT TEMP) WILL MAKE THAT RESTR. WE SHALLOW THE CLB AFTER TKOF AS WE GAIN SPD TO RETRACT FLAPS. THEN WE CLB AT MAX ANGLE OF CLB. AT 6 1/2 DME AND APPROX 3000 FT, DTW DEP CTL INSTRUCTED US TO TURN TO 120 DEGS (FROM 200 DEGS) AND STATED THAT WE WERE NOT GOING TO MAKE THE RESTRICTION AND WE SHOULD HAVE NOTIFIED HIM EARLIER IF WE COULD NOT MAKE RESTR. THIS WAS ALL PRESUMPTION ON HIS PART BECAUSE WE FELT THAT WE WOULD JUST MAKE THE RESTR. OBVIOUSLY, DEP CTL HAS BEEN SPOILED BY B-757'S AND THE LIKE.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

TRACON controller gives turn to departing B-727 because it appears that a climb restr altitude will not be met.