Visual approach procedures.

Attributes
ACN	288623
Time
Date	199411
Day	Tue
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : lax
State Reference	CA
Altitude	msl bound lower : 5000 msl bound upper : 5000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : lax
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	L-1011 Tri-Star All Series
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	Other
Flight Phase	descent : approach
Route In Use	approach : visual
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B747 Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	Other
Flight Phase	descent : approach
Route In Use	approach : visual
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
ASRS Report	288623
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : atp
Events
Anomaly	other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	other
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	other
Situations
ATC Facility	procedure or policy : unspecified

Narrative:

I thought tough, confusing part of flight was over after gear malfunction on climb out from atl. On (STAR) civet were told to contact approach approaching arnes. Couldn't break through. Controller was in near continuous xmissions. Leveled off at 10000 ft finally got through, told to descend to 7000 ft but maintain 8000 ft until 25.0 DME. Approaching 8000 ft we were told about B747 approaching from south that would land on runway 25R and to expect to follow them. (She was indicating that she wanted to put us on a visual). Got step down in altitudes to 5000 ft then 4000 ft and continuously asked about traffic which was not visible. At approximately 15 mi we were told to speed up to 250 KTS. I told her we couldn't in this confign. Sight gave us a 90 degree left turn to 160 degrees. Began turn then asked what speed we could maintain. 190 KTS was given. She told us to turn 10 degrees right and plan for approach to runway 24R. Told her we were in left turn passing 200 degrees. She said she didn't realize we were in turn and gave us appropriate intercept for runway 24R. We're also told that a gulfstream on downwind would keep us in sight and land on runway 24L. They flew over us about 400-500 ft with continuous TA advisories. Bottom line: it is sheer madness to conduct operations in which aircraft north or south of this airport are brought in to land on inbound runways while approachs are conducted to the outboards. Also how do you maintain safe separation from an aircraft that is flying 90 degrees to your course?

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: VISUAL APCH PROCS.

Narrative: I THOUGHT TOUGH, CONFUSING PART OF FLT WAS OVER AFTER GEAR MALFUNCTION ON CLBOUT FROM ATL. ON (STAR) CIVET WERE TOLD TO CONTACT APCH APCHING ARNES. COULDN'T BREAK THROUGH. CTLR WAS IN NEAR CONTINUOUS XMISSIONS. LEVELED OFF AT 10000 FT FINALLY GOT THROUGH, TOLD TO DSND TO 7000 FT BUT MAINTAIN 8000 FT UNTIL 25.0 DME. APCHING 8000 FT WE WERE TOLD ABOUT B747 APCHING FROM S THAT WOULD LAND ON RWY 25R AND TO EXPECT TO FOLLOW THEM. (SHE WAS INDICATING THAT SHE WANTED TO PUT US ON A VISUAL). GOT STEP DOWN IN ALTS TO 5000 FT THEN 4000 FT AND CONTINUOUSLY ASKED ABOUT TFC WHICH WAS NOT VISIBLE. AT APPROX 15 MI WE WERE TOLD TO SPD UP TO 250 KTS. I TOLD HER WE COULDN'T IN THIS CONFIGN. SIGHT GAVE US A 90 DEG L TURN TO 160 DEGS. BEGAN TURN THEN ASKED WHAT SPD WE COULD MAINTAIN. 190 KTS WAS GIVEN. SHE TOLD US TO TURN 10 DEGS R AND PLAN FOR APCH TO RWY 24R. TOLD HER WE WERE IN L TURN PASSING 200 DEGS. SHE SAID SHE DIDN'T REALIZE WE WERE IN TURN AND GAVE US APPROPRIATE INTERCEPT FOR RWY 24R. WE'RE ALSO TOLD THAT A GULFSTREAM ON DOWNWIND WOULD KEEP US IN SIGHT AND LAND ON RWY 24L. THEY FLEW OVER US ABOUT 400-500 FT WITH CONTINUOUS TA ADVISORIES. BOTTOM LINE: IT IS SHEER MADNESS TO CONDUCT OPS IN WHICH ACFT N OR S OF THIS ARPT ARE BROUGHT IN TO LAND ON INBOUND RWYS WHILE APCHS ARE CONDUCTED TO THE OUTBOARDS. ALSO HOW DO YOU MAINTAIN SAFE SEPARATION FROM AN ACFT THAT IS FLYING 90 DEGS TO YOUR COURSE?

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.