37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 290467 |
Time | |
Date | 199412 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : mdh |
State Reference | IL |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2100 msl bound upper : 3000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zkc tower : mdh artcc : zjx |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 600 flight time total : 6700 flight time type : 500 |
ASRS Report | 290467 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation Inter Facility Coordination Failure |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
Center reported visibility at mdh was 1/2 mi, which would have made the approach into mdh a legal approach. However, tower at mdh was reporting 1/4-3/8 mi. The center turned us over to the mdh tower and cleared us for the runway 18L ILS. The tower indicated that the visibility might improve to 1/2 mi. Prior to reaching the OM we decided that if we were vectored out again for another attempt at the same approach, that the visibility might go up to 1/2 mi. Therefore, instead of continuing a descent, we stayed at 3000 ft and went back to center and requested additional vectors for the approach again. Center said that we were not in radar contact and they could not do that for us. They said nothing else and offered no suggestions. We went back to tower and said we were going to be doing a missed approach and that we would be in the published missed approach hold at 3000 ft. Tower said (pause) 'oh, ok!' and nothing more. He didn't request that we go back to center and said that if we hold for a while the visibility could go up and we might be able to come into land. After a circle or 2 in the hold, tower said the center wanted to talk with us. After going to center they said that we had poor procedures and that we should be holding at the published missed approach holding altitude of 2100 ft. We told them that we had informed the tower that we would be at 3000 ft and that he said 'ok' and that he didn't send us over to center. (We eventually returned to springfield, il.) I believe that sloppy procedures and poor communication and poor communication by all 3 parties involved resulted in us holding at 3000 ft.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: THE FLC IS CRITICIZED BY CTR FOR NOT USING THE PUBLISHED MISSED APCH ALT.
Narrative: CTR RPTED VISIBILITY AT MDH WAS 1/2 MI, WHICH WOULD HAVE MADE THE APCH INTO MDH A LEGAL APCH. HOWEVER, TWR AT MDH WAS RPTING 1/4-3/8 MI. THE CTR TURNED US OVER TO THE MDH TWR AND CLRED US FOR THE RWY 18L ILS. THE TWR INDICATED THAT THE VISIBILITY MIGHT IMPROVE TO 1/2 MI. PRIOR TO REACHING THE OM WE DECIDED THAT IF WE WERE VECTORED OUT AGAIN FOR ANOTHER ATTEMPT AT THE SAME APCH, THAT THE VISIBILITY MIGHT GO UP TO 1/2 MI. THEREFORE, INSTEAD OF CONTINUING A DSCNT, WE STAYED AT 3000 FT AND WENT BACK TO CTR AND REQUESTED ADDITIONAL VECTORS FOR THE APCH AGAIN. CTR SAID THAT WE WERE NOT IN RADAR CONTACT AND THEY COULD NOT DO THAT FOR US. THEY SAID NOTHING ELSE AND OFFERED NO SUGGESTIONS. WE WENT BACK TO TWR AND SAID WE WERE GOING TO BE DOING A MISSED APCH AND THAT WE WOULD BE IN THE PUBLISHED MISSED APCH HOLD AT 3000 FT. TWR SAID (PAUSE) 'OH, OK!' AND NOTHING MORE. HE DIDN'T REQUEST THAT WE GO BACK TO CTR AND SAID THAT IF WE HOLD FOR A WHILE THE VISIBILITY COULD GO UP AND WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO COME INTO LAND. AFTER A CIRCLE OR 2 IN THE HOLD, TWR SAID THE CTR WANTED TO TALK WITH US. AFTER GOING TO CTR THEY SAID THAT WE HAD POOR PROCS AND THAT WE SHOULD BE HOLDING AT THE PUBLISHED MISSED APCH HOLDING ALT OF 2100 FT. WE TOLD THEM THAT WE HAD INFORMED THE TWR THAT WE WOULD BE AT 3000 FT AND THAT HE SAID 'OK' AND THAT HE DIDN'T SEND US OVER TO CTR. (WE EVENTUALLY RETURNED TO SPRINGFIELD, IL.) I BELIEVE THAT SLOPPY PROCS AND POOR COM AND POOR COM BY ALL 3 PARTIES INVOLVED RESULTED IN US HOLDING AT 3000 FT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.