ARTCC radar controller intervention - the flight crew was not going to make their crossing restr so ...

Attributes
ACN	300989
Time
Date	199503
Day	Wed
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
Locale Reference	airport : las
State Reference	NV
Altitude	msl bound lower : 10000 msl bound upper : 10000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	artcc : zla
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	Other Other
Flight Phase	descent : approach descent other
Route In Use	arrival other arrival star : star
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 230 flight time total : 3900
ASRS Report	300989
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Events
Anomaly	aircraft equipment problem : less severe altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other controllera other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	controller : issued new clearance other other
Consequence	faa : reviewed incident with flight crew
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation other

Narrative:

Crowe 6 arrival, slc-las, I was flying the aircraft on the milford routing when we were given directions to intercept the runway 25L localizer and cross crowe at 10000 ft MSL. Shortly prior to this, I had entered crowe into our FMC and set up for a descent of 320 KTS to slow to 250 KTS by crowe. Since we had been given an intercept for the localizer (no DME) our other navigation aid was set up for that. After switching from milford VOR to goffs, I noticed that initially we were not receiving any DME. It was during this time that our only guidance for our initial descent was coming from our FMC with crowe set in. Later examinations showed that the coordinates for crowe had been incorrectly inserted into the FMC, giving an incorrect start descent point. Because the localizer frequency contains no DME and we were not receiving DME from goffs at the time, our only reference for descent was from our FMC, which as it turns out was incorrect. To compound matters, we began to encounter continuous light to moderate turbulence. Once we started our descent, our rate was restricted further due to the turbulence. Soon thereafter ZLA called and asked if we were going to make crowe at 10000 ft. They obviously knew we weren't and turned us out of the arrival at FL230 approximately 8 NM from crowe. After a stepped down descent, we rejoined the arrival into las. We did contact the duty supervisor at los angeles to apologize and he stated that this was a very common occurrence and that we could be assured that they had no attention of filing any actions. Although we were relieved that we weren't in trouble, the fact that he said this thing was a common occurrence leads me to believe that perhaps if DME were associated with the localizer that this could have been avoided all together.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: ARTCC RADAR CTLR INTERVENTION - THE FLC WAS NOT GOING TO MAKE THEIR XING RESTR SO THE CTLR GAVE THEM A NEW ROUTING AND ALT AND BROUGHT THEM BACK ONTO COURSE IN GOOD SHAPE FOR THE APCH.

Narrative: CROWE 6 ARR, SLC-LAS, I WAS FLYING THE ACFT ON THE MILFORD ROUTING WHEN WE WERE GIVEN DIRECTIONS TO INTERCEPT THE RWY 25L LOC AND CROSS CROWE AT 10000 FT MSL. SHORTLY PRIOR TO THIS, I HAD ENTERED CROWE INTO OUR FMC AND SET UP FOR A DSCNT OF 320 KTS TO SLOW TO 250 KTS BY CROWE. SINCE WE HAD BEEN GIVEN AN INTERCEPT FOR THE LOC (NO DME) OUR OTHER NAV AID WAS SET UP FOR THAT. AFTER SWITCHING FROM MILFORD VOR TO GOFFS, I NOTICED THAT INITIALLY WE WERE NOT RECEIVING ANY DME. IT WAS DURING THIS TIME THAT OUR ONLY GUIDANCE FOR OUR INITIAL DSCNT WAS COMING FROM OUR FMC WITH CROWE SET IN. LATER EXAMINATIONS SHOWED THAT THE COORDINATES FOR CROWE HAD BEEN INCORRECTLY INSERTED INTO THE FMC, GIVING AN INCORRECT START DSCNT POINT. BECAUSE THE LOC FREQ CONTAINS NO DME AND WE WERE NOT RECEIVING DME FROM GOFFS AT THE TIME, OUR ONLY REF FOR DSCNT WAS FROM OUR FMC, WHICH AS IT TURNS OUT WAS INCORRECT. TO COMPOUND MATTERS, WE BEGAN TO ENCOUNTER CONTINUOUS LIGHT TO MODERATE TURB. ONCE WE STARTED OUR DSCNT, OUR RATE WAS RESTRICTED FURTHER DUE TO THE TURB. SOON THEREAFTER ZLA CALLED AND ASKED IF WE WERE GOING TO MAKE CROWE AT 10000 FT. THEY OBVIOUSLY KNEW WE WEREN'T AND TURNED US OUT OF THE ARR AT FL230 APPROX 8 NM FROM CROWE. AFTER A STEPPED DOWN DSCNT, WE REJOINED THE ARR INTO LAS. WE DID CONTACT THE DUTY SUPVR AT LOS ANGELES TO APOLOGIZE AND HE STATED THAT THIS WAS A VERY COMMON OCCURRENCE AND THAT WE COULD BE ASSURED THAT THEY HAD NO ATTN OF FILING ANY ACTIONS. ALTHOUGH WE WERE RELIEVED THAT WE WEREN'T IN TROUBLE, THE FACT THAT HE SAID THIS THING WAS A COMMON OCCURRENCE LEADS ME TO BELIEVE THAT PERHAPS IF DME WERE ASSOCIATED WITH THE LOC THAT THIS COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED ALL TOGETHER.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

ARTCC radar controller intervention - the flight crew was not going to make their crossing restr so the controller gave them a new routing and altitude and brought them back onto course in good shape for the approach.